We've all heard dudes lament that flirting/hitting on girls/commenting on women's bodies is "only creepy when the guy is unattractive."
Some women boldly declare the same. "If a sexy man compliments me, that's fine. If a ugly man looks at me too long, that's harassment." (See also: Here's How One Pretty Woman Deals With The "Constant Stares and Compliments" From Men.) "It's only sexual harassment if he's ugly and poor." (See also: Yes, Money DOES Make You Happier - If You Use a Log Scale.) "If he's cute, it's called flirting, but if he's ugly that's sexual harassment and you'd better go to HR." (See also: Why You Should Flirt With Basically Everyone.) Sure, reality is harsh... but so is self-reflection. So let's "unpack" this a little to figure out what's really going on, and how you can do better in your romantic pursuits. 1. In order to be fun and not creepy, FLIRTING HAS TO BE MUTUAL. Flirting is fun. But only when advances are thrilling, meaningful, or desired. Flirting, like kissing, sex, and... I dunno, tandem skydiving?... is only fun when both people are into it. (See also: Dear Confused Dudes: If You Had To Grab Her By The Head and Restrain Her, It Wasn't a "Kiss.") Unwanted sexual advances are gross. I'm not going to sugarcoat things, because that's a waste of everyone's time: if you're attractive, your advances are more likely to be mutual. If you're unattractive, your advances are less likely to be mutual. Especially in a situation where you're chatting up someone new, who knows little about you other than what you look like. Facts are facts. The only way around this is to pretend evolution and biology and psychology don't exist. Yes, all else equal, women like men who are tall and handsome. BUT. What's going to be a lot more important than that in the long-run is his ability to provide. That he has mature and masculine qualities. That he is a loving, considerate, compassionate individual. And that he's smart. According to Plomin and Deary's expert review, Genetics and intelligence differences: five special findings (2014), "Assortative mating is greater for intelligence (spouse correlations ~0.40) than for other behavioural traits such as personality and psychopathology (~0.10) or physical traits such as height and weight (~0.20)." In other words, Hollywood is wrong. Opposites do not attract. We like people who are like us -- with respect to anything from political opinions to religious background to physical attractiveness to intelligence. But we especially like people who are like us with respect to intelligence. But I don't know how intellectually sexy you are if we've only just met! And I'm going to assume you're intellectually repulsive if you think the way to win my heart is to give some cheap compliment about my body or appearance. So if you're someone of below-average attractiveness, maybe instead of hitting on women you barely know... get to know them first. Learn charisma and be respectful. Remember: it's not that girls don't like guys who are "desperate" or "too available." It's that you ignored her clearly-stated preferences and boundaries. Once they feel comfortable around you, once they start to appreciate your intelligence, sense of humor, and other positive qualities, THEN it may be time to start flirting. 2. I really shouldn't have to say this, but you're not entitled to a woman's attention. Guess what? It's okay for women to be attracted to other women. It's okay for men to be attracted to skinny women. It's okay for men to only want to date women with vaginas, and it's okay for women to be attracted to nerds or jocks, or anyone else they want. We are all allowed to be attracted to whomever we're attracted to, and you are not entitled to a woman's time, affection, or attraction. That's why so many women cringe when they hear phrases like "friend zoned" and "nice guy." Remember: no woman ever dates a man because he's "nice." Nice is the most basic criterion. If you're not nice and other things... then you're just nice. And that's, like, super boring. If you feel like you don't have much to offer, other than being nice, check out some of the advice I shared in You'd Get Invited to More Parties if You'd Mingle, Instead of Cling. And, again, remember: you are not entitled to a woman's time, affection, or attraction. 3. A decent rule of thumb is, "If you're not SURE the answer is yes, don't ask her out." In July 2017, Ashton Kutcher, an American actor and investor, was berated on Twitter for trying to start a conversation about rules for dating in the workplace. Which is absolutely ridiculous. It's a perfectly valid question. If we don't discuss "clear red lines" and rules for dating at work, we spread ignorance and fear. Male and female employees may become afraid to interact with one another. Women may miss out on opportunities to discuss promotions and raises, because their bosses are afraid to have a closed-door meeting with them. Bosses may fear asking employees out for a drink to discuss a project, for fear this could be interpreted wrong. And, of course, women (and men) could get hurt, by both malicious and well-meaning colleagues. We should absolutely be discussing the rules for dating (and even friendships) at work. I don't have a great, all-encompassing answer. But the advice I gave one friend recently when he wondered whether or not he should ask out a woman he works with was, "You should only ask if you know the answer is going to be yes." How do you know the answer is going to be yes? You spend time talking to each other at work. You feel a certain mutual energy -- not a one-way physical attraction. It's obvious to you that she likes you and would want to go on a date with you. If you don't know she would say yes, you either need to practice developing your social skills or get over this girl. Because either you don't have the social savvy to stay out of trouble, or you're asking because of wishful thinking. And she shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable and objectified by some creepy dude she doesn't even like just because you were too lazy or emotional to examine and correctly interpret the interactions. 4. Hot guys can be creepy, too. It's not like being attractive gives you a free pass. Look what happened to Ashton Kutcher when he asked a sincere and important question about dating at work. Undoubtedly, part of the reason women seem not to find hot guys as creepy is your own motivated reasoning. Your mind clings to examples that confirm your existing views. It selectively forgets or overjustifies examples that don't. Even the world's best thinkers are prone to cognitive biases. And, yes, part of the reason women don't seem to find hot guys creepy is the whole, "If there's a mutual attraction, it's not creepy," thing. But another part of the reason may be that attractive men simply have more experience talking to and flirting with women. Communication is hard and messy, and the only way to get good at it is through practice. If you spend a lot of time watching porn and playing video games, you're not going to be as good at flirting or communicating as someone who goes out to bars, joins co-ed sports leagues, spends time pursuing hobbies, and makes plans to meet up with friends. THAT SAID. Hot guys can be creepy, too. I've met my share, and no amount of physical attractiveness makes it acceptable to harass women. ***
So, long story short, yes. If you're physically unattractive, you may have to approach flirting a little differently from those despised "hot guys." But one thing you can do right now, that will instantly make you more manly and attractive, is think about what behaviors of yours might be problematic... and how you cn correct them. Because, to me, one of the major differences between a man and a boy (and, for that matter, a woman and a little girl), is that a man takes accountability and doesn't blame his faults on other people.
640 Comments
Steve H
9/1/2018 02:14:41 pm
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Alun
10/8/2020 05:53:37 pm
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3/23/2022 08:51:50 am
There are ways to meet women other than by approaching them and hitting on them. If you're creeping women out when you approach them, you need to stop approaching them and either figure out what you're doing wrong, so you don't creep them out anymore, or find a new way to meet women.
Doug
10/11/2022 07:36:47 am
Here’s the thing, Eva - you say flirting has to be mutual (i.e., a woman has to find me attractive too) - but the fact is no woman finds me attractive on a sexual level. I have lots of women friends that I’ve met through shared activities,, etc. but that’s it. At 43, I’ve concluded that I’m simply not able to be sexually attractive to any woman. As such, there are no ways for me to meet women other than as friends - and as you say, “if you don't think you can approach a woman without creeping her out, it's good you're not going to be approaching them…”. 10/16/2022 07:38:31 am
Doug, there are 4 billion women on this planet. Surely there are at least a handful who would love you.
Joe
2/21/2021 08:37:42 pm
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Dean
11/7/2021 12:30:58 am
I really appreciated the frankness of this blog, but your comment was the perfect appendum to it and tied everything up awesomly. Thanks Joe!
Joe
11/7/2021 07:19:52 am
Thanks for the compliment Dean. It's nice to know someone out there in internet-land gets it :)
Tired of Whiney Little Boys
3/12/2021 11:24:41 pm
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Joe
8/17/2021 06:59:19 pm
What logical inconsistencies are you referring to? All you did was attack me personally by saying I was pedantic and childish because I disagreed with one of the things you said. Then you went on a big rant making a number of similar points to the one's I've already made on here?
Joe
8/19/2021 07:23:05 pm
Exactly my point. You are responding to "Tired of Whiney Little Boys" comment so why are you claiming anything about proving me wrong? If you think you can find some actual logical inconsistencies of mine, then by all means, go ahead. Discussing the subject is why we are hear after all. 5/29/2022 11:26:29 am
> What am I supposed to do as an autistic person? I am *never* *sure* an answer is going to be yes. This appears to require me to foresee into the future.
Mike
4/12/2023 12:25:32 pm
Although fractional bits and pieces of both sides could possibly have some true value or factual relevance, it was nothing more than a 100% one eyed strategically gender biased askew jilted opinion totally based off of one singular point of view and one singularly generic type preferencing. Plus if a guy is "just" nice according to your opinion he needs dating or something must be wrong with him, but if a Genuinely NICE MAN flipped that over on a total skeezy legit street or porn hoe, and said they are not worth being with and have literally will add no real value to any married life or parental worlds because they are nothing more than the 5 Letter word that actually says everything about the type and its the only thing anyone needs to know kind of "Good women"!
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cat observer
12/3/2018 09:13:38 pm
You brushed over a few important things. Those women in the tweets where complaining about ugly men hitting on them. not ugly men who refused to take no for an answer. I agree that if a woman is not reciprocating flirting you should back off but those women seemed to think that even one attempt at flirting is sexual harassment.
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12/6/2018 11:04:59 am
I do believe I addressed this in my post. That's kind of what I meant when I said,
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Never Gonna Get It
2/25/2020 08:06:01 am
The comic says it all. Stereotypical that the neckbeard is the one living in his mother's basement, behaving like an a-hole, at the porn convention, and a brony. If a good-looking guy was doing that shit, 9 times out of 10 women would be willing to overlook it. There are YouTube Tinder experiments where over the top obnoxious comments are tolerated and laughed off when attached to a good-looking guy's photo and the conversations keep going and going. 11/2/2020 07:43:13 am
A girl I liked once called me creepy.. I knew that it was not because she meant it, but because she was not that bright, and had become influenced by the social milieu of just calling a guy that without really thinking about it.
Morro
11/13/2020 03:55:42 am
I'm unattractive, I've learnt alot from this article and comments. Looks like a lonely existence for me. I looked up what cope or rope is (in the comments), think I'm gonna go with rope. 11/19/2020 06:59:15 am
Hi "Morro,"
Star fall
11/26/2020 10:57:07 am
@Eva, you can't keep repeating this trope about someone's behavior affecting being labeled "creepy." There's a wealth of data to demonstrate it in the negative that I'm sure has been presented to you already; you just need to actually vet the information. The perspective offered in this article is only damaging that it twists the narrative such that well-intentioned men approaching women and being called "creepy" for doing so is from an aspect of their behavior/decisions and not simply their looks. It discourages men from even trying, which is actually the goal when you think about it more (which this article does not demonstrate). You even *leaned into it* when someone explained that they have tried altering their behavior much to no avail. You seriously need to reconsider this standpoint given the information you have been presented.
eva damage control
12/7/2020 04:29:15 am
Please shut up, don't damage control.
Amine
1/3/2021 06:08:56 am
I hope you get AIDS and kick the bucket young. You're despicable and full of hate. We don't need this toxicity in society. Just leave.
Sana
1/3/2021 07:14:40 am
@eva damage control. Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? You're so out of touch with reality that you don't realize that things you said are sexist as shit. Women don't need men to provide for them. Seems to me that this whole "women only go out with good lucking guys and if they go out with ugly men it's for their money" is your way of justifying why you can't get a date.
Prescott Czygan
1/14/2021 08:15:42 am
Women have to accept either the responsibility of asking men out themselves or just dealing with being hit on. Suck it up buttercup, men are men and the only way we will know is if we make the approach.
Bdnskdk
1/31/2021 06:47:43 am
@Morro: I'm not sure why you're here wasting our time when you've already thought about taking your life.
Anonymous
2/22/2021 05:01:20 pm
Morro, do not listen to Bdnskdk. Anyone who reacts to someone's pain by telling them to kill themselves is a piece of shit.
Lennert Cornette
3/6/2021 04:29:43 am
eva damage control
Greg
7/3/2021 10:25:52 pm
Your post comes across as entitled and as someone who lacks self awareness. While I agree some men can be creepy I also find that some women lack personal accountability and feel the world is supposed to cater to their wants and needs. There might be some men who simply don’t agree with or share your standards of what “creepy” is and not only are the not obliged to conform to your standards it is very arrogant of you to speak as if it is up to you to tell others how they should or should not act.
Just curious
8/18/2021 08:44:18 pm
What if someone has social anxiety or are neuro divergent that makes it hard for them to read body language or social cues? Are they automatically creepy?
Joe
8/19/2021 08:08:06 pm
They are definitely not automatically creepy but they can be more prone to accidentally engaging in behaviour that can be labelled creepy or weird. 8/20/2021 11:13:08 am
Just Curious,
Lennert Cornette
3/6/2021 04:24:15 am
'He does not insult her or try to ruin her career. Women on the other hand seem to hate guys they are not attracted too.' This exactly. Women like to talk about double standards, yet they're the ones who constantly use double standards. It's so tiring.
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Missy truth
4/24/2021 12:17:20 pm
Excuse me, I absolutely AM entitled to not be asked out when I am at work. That is not what we are there for, it isnt a social club. I dont have a choice about being there or having to be around you. I am a captive target, and it is highly inappropriate to proposition a fellow professional without absolute certainty that it is welcome.
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S--
4/30/2021 04:04:28 am
No you're wrong. Men are not "creepy". Women are just "angry". But I'm ok with that as long as it's the truth I know. And it's not because men are "creepy" and it's definitely not because women are approached lol!!! That's such a foolish lie women tell! Are you serious? I thought women were smart! It's just that women feel as though men have a lot of "power" in the validation they crave from them. And guess what? They think wanting validation is WRONG and so pretend not to like being approached and/or be complimented. They have a flawed sense of thought that MUST change or else...
Joe
4/30/2021 01:43:40 pm
Lol, or else what?
Chris
7/26/2021 11:02:19 am
Asking a colleague out is not “male entitlement you can say yes or no. It is normal human interaction !!! Romantic relationships develop in all sorts of environments including work. You can decide that you never wish to date a colleague and that is fine. Also there no way of being 100% certain that someone likes you romantically unless you ask them. If you rally don’t like the trials and tribulations of dealing with different human beings there are options. 7/27/2021 08:03:43 am
Chris, it is possible to be 100% sure. If you are not 100% sure, don't ask. But it is possible for people to be 100% sure. For me, it's actually really easy to know. It has to do with social intelligence + KNOWING from the amazing, energizing interactions you have with the person.
Aldo Lopez
8/7/2021 08:00:10 am
There is a lot of anger in these comments. Im not directing that statement at you. It’s just an observation.
Chris
8/13/2021 12:59:05 am
Hi Eva, I will meet you more than halfway on this. I do not believe you can ever being 100% certain that someone will say yes, however, you can be at least 90 to 95% certain that they will. Intentions are not always clear and behaviour is not always appropriate between the sexes for there ever to be 100% guarantee.
Joe
8/13/2021 10:41:39 am
It's great that you're willing to consider this Chris. One question though, why are you bringing probabilities into it at all? I think we can all agree that the total probability of a yes is probably never 100%, but the author never said it needed to be, you and other posters keep wanting to assign percentages and that's pretty tough to do in social interaction.
Chris
8/14/2021 01:08:48 am
Hi Joe, I am not sure if you are trolling or not? You are certainly being extremely pedantic. She responded and said it is “possible to be 100% sure.” Where else have I quoted her? The word sure means completely confident that you are right. It is an informal expression that can be interchanged with the word certain. Certain means able to be firmly relied on to happen or to be the case.
Chris
8/15/2021 04:00:47 am
Also, the whole argument is asinine. You can never know 100% what someone is thinking.
Chris
8/15/2021 06:14:47 am
‘“ Your problem here is that you aren't 100% sure. Which means the answer is probably going to be no, and it might get passed on to HR.”
Joe
8/17/2021 04:47:09 pm
Chris, you say you're willing to have an open discussion about this but then you right away open by insulting me personally? Did I say anything bad about you in my post? No, all I did was point out how Eva used differing language to describe the situation and why I think that distinction is important. If you disagree that's fine but is it too much to ask that you be respectful about it at least?
Chris
8/17/2021 11:10:21 pm
Lol Joe, it looks like reading comprehension is not your strong point. In my initial post, I am clearly not attacking you personally!!! I am commenting on your line of argument. You were trying to argue the difference between the words “sure” and “certain” for goodness sake! I am allowed to critique your argument in a debate. To be clear, when someone criticises your argument as pedantic and childish they are not saying that you completely embody these characteristics. It is your argument that they are focussing on !!! Now if you do not understand the difference between critiquing someone’s argument and personal attacks then I do not want to do this with you anymore. To be clear, I know nothing about you other than your comments on this page.
Joe
8/19/2021 07:13:05 pm
My reading comprehension is obviously fine. Just scroll up and read your own comments for yourself. It's written right there for all to see, but I'll spell it out for you here, I guess, seeing as you still don't seem to be able to see it for yourself. Here's your first two sentences in response to me, caps for emphasis:
CHRIS
8/20/2021 12:49:19 am
“Hi JOE, I am not sure if YOU ARE TROLLING or not? YOU ARE certainly being EXTREMELY PEDANTIC".
Chris
8/20/2021 02:04:49 am
"Hi JOE, I am not sure if YOU ARE TROLLING or not? YOU ARE certainly being EXTREMELY PEDANTIC" 8/20/2021 10:15:34 am
Aldo, 8/20/2021 10:32:14 am
Chris, 8/20/2021 10:48:11 am
Chris, 8/20/2021 10:59:19 am
Joe (/ EVA IN DISGUISE!!!!!!!!) 8/20/2021 11:02:57 am
Joe,
Hari
8/26/2021 05:29:29 am
@Eva:
Hari
8/26/2021 05:37:04 am
which is* basically
Chris
3/9/2022 03:44:51 am
Devon
11/13/2022 05:40:12 pm
Newsflash
Chris
4/6/2023 04:11:52 am
Hi Eva,
Guy
12/11/2022 07:56:36 am
You missed the point.
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WantedSavage777
12/15/2022 12:36:25 am
Get Jesus in your life. He knows your needs. He will provide and overflow your satisfaction in due time no matter the state of your life or the world.
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cat observer
12/3/2018 09:45:04 pm
Another problem with your post.
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12/6/2018 11:11:35 am
People who sit on the couch all day are worse runners than people who exercise every day. Humans are great at understanding emotions and context -- but it is a skill that can take more practice for some people than others. Just like running. That doesn't mean you have to sit on the couch all day.
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cat observer
5/11/2019 09:47:07 am
My main point is that women, especially left leaning women, get very angry when an unattractive man shows interest. Then SOME of these women will use the privilege society grants them to attack the man as a creepy pervert. In other words these women will attempt to ostracize the man from society because he is unattractive. As an excuse for not finding this man attractive and to justify ostracism they say there is something wrong with how the man acted, when a more attractive man who did the same thing would not have a problem. This is a form of social bullying.
Dan
5/23/2020 12:06:29 pm
Untrue about running. I’ve personally met people who never exercise but can run a few miles effortlessly, and I know people who exercise regularly who struggle to complete a 5k for years. Genetics are king in fitness not matter what anyone wants to believe.
Tairu
10/14/2020 05:01:48 am
The fact that you wrote this & have faced no consequence for sexism & influencing society in accepting this as a new norm is a huge indication of the reason why men can see clear as day war has been declared on their sexuality & they want nothing but for men to be made into disposable slaves. The internet has exposed wmn for their negligent nature(men vs men) toward the male sex. They have lost the ability to be wives because of articles like these that push for the legal murder of men. Men that women want to establish their attractiveness off of, of the failures of men that they initiate. Men should treat ugly women the same way, because women clearly have shown an willingness to leave men without support as long as a group of men supports them. As long as men remain a unsolidified supportive group of each other as a whole, women will always be able to get away with these forms of bullying that they have no problem with men dealing with, but men can't even call a woman fat. While a woman due to the internet, now can take pride in(as if it makes her smv go up) rejecting men, they clearly want to involve harming the mans abilities with other women. Why is this article supporting such attitudes by women as if men are only meant to be alive if they are desired by every woman? When did women think they were "entitled" to be able to depict the quality of a mans life for her own personal gratification? That's LIKE SAYING WOMEN ASSUME IF THEY THINK A MAN IS UGLY THAN HE MUST BE A POTENTIAL RAPIST, OR IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING AT A JOB, OR TRYING TO BE A MASCULINE MAN! DO WOMEN BELIEVE BEING A MAN IS SOMETHING THAT WOMEN ALLOW OR DONT, DO MEN ONLY BE TREATED LIKE HUMAN BEINGS ONLY IF THEYRE ATTRACTIVE? SO AS MEN WE SHOULD DO THE SAME WITH WOMEN RIGHT? SHOULD WE GO TO HR WHEN A WOMAN ASKS US TO HELP HER WITH SOMETHING WHILE BEING UGLY, AS THIS IS OFFENSIVE TO US AS MEN AS WE ONLY WANT TO HELP ATTRACTIVE WOMEN WHO CAN BE A POTENTIAL BOOST TO OUR SOCIAL STATUS---wait, that would be like what women are doing with ugly men in the workplace. No potential benefit for the woman for the show of support, & the woman wants to hurt the man for almost hurting her socially by assuming she is not more attractive than what she is. . That's really damaging to her, like really(SARCASM). Not as much as trying to depict which men can be men at any given point as they go, & based on their own perceived smv being threatened by them having to be the loving caring & nurturing human beings that they claim to be for all the suitors they're trying to use. That's only for men that qualify, being an adult treating another adult like a human being goes out the window with women & female competition. Such civilized creatures right? Clearly women are phiny beginning to end in their so called love, there is nothing civilized about the way the women in the article are acting toward men. Guess women don't think they have to be civilized with men, they're disposable, just help them to be deleted cause YOU think they don't qualify. The rest of the men are disposable so that she may feel how she wants to. A woman like that has to be an adult that is truly emotionally intelligent indeed, to be able to put a mans ability to live in peace before how she feels. Shows us how much women love the idea of men hating them, they want men to hate them as much as women secretly hate themselves. As much as they hate men. This content is evidence that WOMEN ARE NOT CAPABLE OF LOVE for men. They don't even know how, they don't have love they have sex & needs of men. That's it! So for a man to want a woman is to want to help her, so it's not an excuse for a woman to be a jackas & TRY TO BLOCK A MAN IN HIS MISSION TO BE A MAN! this is not a grown woman, that is a adult child, crying for validation in her feelings as if they're the ones that really matter(no wonder we tell men they don't show emotion cause women can't handle the opinion of men about them if it was taught to boys that girls will try to kill you if they think you're ugly, gotta get suitors fk mens feelings right?). I think it's due to the internet being able to showcase that women are really covert prostitutes & mad about it. They have ruined their image & are in fight back mode to keep sex valuable to men so that this behavior like in this article is waived off as nothing but more evidence of that women are all talk. They are snowflakes who want to be lied to, want a fantasy. They're not being adults in any of these interactions, & their ability to cope with their emotions shouldn't cost a man his quality of life nor should he be disrespected to death like that. A woman cannot get away with calling a man a rapist to get attn for how she wants validation for how she thinks she looks or what her position makes her believe she can do. Toxic femininity at it's worse right here being pushed on our children so that women enforce their privileges given to them by(not surprisingly lied to & not called it in
Joe
2/21/2021 08:50:19 pm
That's a really interesting study you just cited. Dang, I no longer can use the excuse of just being a man to get away with not listening to what my girlfriend is saying, lol.
Doubter
6/28/2019 06:18:45 pm
I do realize that grossly inappropriate advances and sexual harassment from men toward women is a huge problem that is way too prevalent across the world. Too many men do have an issue with sexual entitlement and lack of respect. Because of this, the #MeToo movement is very important and necessary. So, the point that I am about to make is not intended to dismiss that real issue.
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9/19/2019 01:39:21 pm
I agree so much about the ridiculousness of Hollywood. I would even add one to the list: I just watched Tall Girl (how could I not? I'm a tall girl!) and it bugged the crap out of me that this creepy little pervert, who harassed his "friend" by asking her out every single day at school, tried to sabotage her relationships with other guys, and SNUCK INTO HER ROOM AND TOUCHED HER WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING...
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daddy govt
7/1/2020 03:26:25 pm
I think all your comments should be canceled for being ugly & bias comments, & until you respond to cat observer we don't believe you are not just helping in pushing an agenda to destroy society.
datdude
7/21/2020 03:13:41 pm
Lol you are clearly trying to engineer the world so it works in your favor 100% and you never get hurt by it. And the worst part is you want to legislate it to serve you, like women typically do. You will be the first to go when society stops working or taking you very kindly anymore.
Jeff
9/15/2020 10:11:04 am
"creepy little fucker" 9/15/2020 01:57:33 pm
Sounds like SOMEONE'S a little (err... sorry... does that word trigger you??) sensitive!
Star Fall
11/26/2020 11:02:32 am
@Eva
Xavier
7/13/2019 11:53:40 am
Legally speaking you cannot have different sets of rules for ugly men and attractive men.
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7/16/2019 09:39:39 am
The rule is the same no matter who you are: flirting is only okay when it's reciprocal.
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Star Fall
11/26/2020 11:05:26 am
@Eva again, being calles a "creep" is potentially career damaging, and has nothing to do with behavior, for example the time I was called a creep for being black while waiting in front of a house to pick my friend up. You need to actually hear these arguments and provide a meaningful conversation rather than plugging your ears.
Paul
7/4/2021 01:59:01 pm
And since with fundamentally unattractive guys like me, “flirting” is *never* reciprocal, I never try because now matter what I do, wherever I do it, would be creepy. So the only option is to never try. I have many women friends, but never has any one of them - or any other woman - hinted non-platonic interest in me. For me to do so would be offensive. Please stop with this BS that flirting is a ‘skill that can be learned’ and all that. Unless a guy is born attractive [to someone (and she makes this extremely obvious to him)], his only choice is never to express sexual interest in anyone no matter how strong in is. So I never do.
Chris
8/17/2021 03:41:35 pm
Eva, the whole point of flirting is to see if the interest is reciprocal. That is why men and women flirt . You are signalling interest in small increments to gage the interest level of the other party!!! It sounds like you don’t really understand what the behaviour is. It is an opening gambit in the initiation of a romantic relationship!!! It is a fairly obvious communication dynamic. It is therefore incredibly daft to say “flirting is only okay when it is reciprocal” when the whole point of the behaviour is to see if it is reciprocal!!! How on earth are people supposed to gage romantic interest when they are not able to pass go?!! You cannot ask someone out unless you are 100% sure of a romantic interest but you also cannot flirt with anyone unless you know it is reciprocal- Do you not see the gaping whole in your argument there?
Joe
8/17/2021 09:04:10 pm
I think she meant continuing to flirt is only okay when it is mutual. According to you, "[Flirting] is an opening gambit in the initiation of a romantic relationship", would you not also agree that most people don't go from just meeting to initiating romance, most of the time? As the article says, "get to know them first." In my experience, that's more often how it goes, you break the ice, get to know each other a little and then you maybe start testing for romance.
Chris
8/17/2021 11:36:14 pm
Hi Joe, I think you are being overly defensive of Eva. That is not a criticism, just an observation. She has clearly not articulated her argument well as you seem to have to consistently fill in the blanks. The problem is, she has argued about the importance of reciprocation and about not doing things until you know they are reciprocated but someone has to initiate something before you know what page you are on.
Joe
8/19/2021 07:48:00 pm
I think the article above puts into words a lot of concepts that most people with social skills kinda just figure out, and gives some useful advice to men (or anyone really) who are struggling socially and find themselves being called creeps. I also find that men who are struggling are increasingly finding themselves into groups like MGTOW and incels where they echo-chamber self hate and come to believe that they have no chance to find a relationship of any kind. I want to fight back against that nonsense and hope to help more men find some happiness.
Ark Menetti
2/4/2022 02:12:37 am
No, it clearly isn't. What you're saying is very true, ugly men should be very aware that they have no chance with any woman, but to punish those men for simply excusing their sexuality is a very slippery slope at best and as Xavier points out, a human rights violation at worst. Mind you if he does continue after you said no then calling him whatever is clearly justified but clearly that's not what you're talking about.
Joe
2/4/2022 12:54:25 pm
Well since we're just declaring things to be definitely true, I would like to counter your argument:
Carl
8/3/2019 10:53:48 am
Yep. Sad but true. Women want the double standard that Chad get's to hit on them but an unattractive guy does not.
Reply
8/3/2019 11:07:38 am
Honey, if people are calling you creepy, you haven't done it right.
Carl
8/3/2019 12:27:38 pm
Honey, if people are calling you creepy, you haven't done it right.
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Anonymous
9/16/2019 10:44:17 am
Eva,
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The statement, "You want them to look past your appearance? Maybe you should do the same," is completely gender neutral. This article just happens to be for and about men. But I agree with you. With the exception of "older" ("older" isn't the same as balding, short, etc., because, while people love to say older women have less good eggs, older men also have less healthy sperm, plus there are plenty of other considerations - do you really want your husband to be 80 when you're 60, etc.), it makes sense to not be a shallow jerk. (It's just science. People typically end up with people who are like them. Unless there's a confounding factor, 7s end up with 7s, 3s with 3s, etc. )
Jay
8/15/2020 01:16:46 pm
"If you happen to be super physically attractive, maybe." 8/15/2020 01:37:00 pm
Jay, you sound like you need to take a xanax. You aren't making any sense, and if you think I'm going to engage with someone who is clearly mentally disturbed, you are mistaken. Call your therapist. 9/19/2019 01:54:33 pm
A man on a construction site yells obscene things to a 12-year-old girl on her way to school. A man takes creepy photos of a woman who is sunbathing in her yard.
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DB
2/19/2020 07:50:28 pm
Gossip is also what leads to stereotyping, bigotry, racism, and witch hunts. The Norse recognized the destructive power of gossip; The squirrel Rattatoskr, the God of Gossip, was deliberately attempting to destroy the world by spreading gossip, exaggerating insults, and instigating outrage wherever he went. 2/20/2020 12:43:12 pm
Everything good can also lead to bad things. But gossip is an extremely good thing when it helps women know which men to avoid because they are creepy, rapey, or otherwise disrespectful of women's bodies, boundaries, and autonomy.
Jay
8/15/2020 01:20:26 pm
" But I don't owe you shit just because you think I'm pretty."
okay mrs equality
9/6/2021 05:35:21 am
same goes both ways sweetheart. we do not owe you our decency when asking you out. you’re entitled to call us whatever you want. but just like men aren’t entitled to your best. we don’t have to put our best foot forward for you.
Chris Geddes McEwen
3/14/2022 01:58:07 am
Hi Eva,
Joe
3/14/2022 12:15:26 pm
Gossip and false accusations are definitely not the same thing. False accusations are the intentional spreading of disinformation. Gossip on the other hand typically involves the sharing of details that a person would probably rather were not shared due to being considered personal or private, but are often based on some factual element or testimony. Gossip is also very vague in that it could be good or bad (and the distinction between the two is highly subjective and based on the personal opinion of those involved). Certainly gossip can turn into rumours that aren't true if it spreads and people along the way overhear some gossip out of context or misconstrue a detail. However, that is a bit of different thing again.
joe
12/7/2020 05:24:37 pm
i dont think we can generalize.women do need to be careful in todays world when they dont know someone. however if an attractive or an ugly man gives a sweet compliment to a woman,having no ulterior motive but to respond to someone blessed with grace and beauty it should be taken in a good way. it may not be flirting at all. should an ugly man be banned from a national park too. a compliment is a compliment if its sincere.
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Missy Truth
4/24/2021 12:42:25 pm
See, in my experience, a guy, ugly or not, is not a "creep" until he acts creepy. Meaning, I have been approached by men who were not attractive, and they were not labeled creeps by me until they demonstrated an inability to take being gently rebuffed with grace. If they were pushy, or angry, or rude, or insulting in their response to the rebuffing, then they're creeps. If they are polite and accepting and graciously retreat, Im infinitely more likely to take a second look and reconsider. I may not give him my number, but I lay give him a genuine smile or acknowledge him on my way out of the coffee shop, and it is always met with a visual lifting of his general spirits. They always straighten their posture, smile back, and just get a more pleasant air about them, even while knowing that there isnt interest from me, they are left less pessimistic for the next endeavor.
Chris
3/15/2022 02:07:51 am
Hi Joe, 3/15/2022 08:36:41 am
Chris, are you suggesting that people should not be allowed to talk about other people until.... what? They've received independent confirmation from two different sources? They have video evidence? At what point do you think people should be "allowed" to talk about other people?
Chris
3/16/2022 01:59:00 am
Hi Eva,
Joe
3/16/2022 10:52:26 am
Chris you're dodging the question sticking to your very narrow and inaccurate definition of gossip.
Chris
3/16/2022 11:55:54 am
Joe,
Joe
3/16/2022 04:23:14 pm
The question about how much evidence a woman needs to gather before you would consider it okay for her to warn her friends about a man being creepy or worse? So far it seems like you're not okay with her even expressing the real feelings she felt because as you claim her feelings are "not a fair reflection on what happened".
Joe
3/16/2022 04:27:53 pm
Joe
3/16/2022 05:01:26 pm
I re-posted your comment above, my response:
Chris
3/17/2022 10:56:00 am
Yes Joe, I believe that gossip and false accusations are both toxic as neither is concerned with the truth - That is my point and a point that I have repeatedly made. Please note I am referring to gossip here. My comments about gossip had been in reply to one of Eva’s comments, so let us not loose context.
Chris
3/17/2022 11:53:11 am
“The question about how much evidence a woman needs to gather before you would consider it okay for her to warn her friends about a man being creepy or worse? So far it seems like you're not okay with her even expressing the real feelings she felt because as you claim her feelings are "not a fair reflection on what happened".
Anonymous
9/18/2019 02:52:41 pm
"...it makes sense not to be a shallow jerk."
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9/18/2019 03:35:44 pm
No, not at all. When you copy-paste random quotes without context, you can make anything sound like anything. Or, as Shakespeare might have said, "The devil can cite scripture for his purpose."
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Doubter
9/18/2019 04:38:54 pm
Hi Eva,
Anonymous
9/18/2019 08:32:21 pm
I don't think they were "random quotes without context." On the contrary. The brevity and abruptness of these two statements gives all the context I need to explain my point. However, you, for whatever reason, are not willing to acknowledge how these two statements negate other arguments you're trying to make.
Doubter
9/19/2019 01:50:08 am
Dear Anonymous (and Eva -- see below),
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Anonymous
9/19/2019 10:41:10 am
I don't want her to have the "I'm taking my ball and going home, I don't wanna play anymore" reaction to my comments, so for the sake of her participation in this important discussion, I'll try my level best to turn down the temperature. But I'm not going to turn it down so much that she is not held accountable for her shaming language and perpetuance of double standards against men. When she makes hot-button statements about hot-button social issues, she should expect her haughty, sanctimonious assertions to be responded to in kind. To you, her language may be "consistently respectful." To me, her "consitently repsectful" language is patronizing and sanctimonious, carefully worded to feign politeness. It does not give her an excuse not to justify and defend her statments. The strength of steel is measured by its ability to withstand the most intense heat. 9/19/2019 01:06:56 pm
Doubter, 9/19/2019 01:23:50 pm
Doubter (cont),
Chris
3/16/2022 12:53:04 pm
‘You keep wanting to define gossip as not including established fact and that is not what makes it gossip. take for example: "I saw Mr. Smith kissing his assistant passionately when I went back to the office to get my umbrella". "Oooh, do you think he's having an affair?"
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Joe
3/16/2022 04:25:48 pm
I think you accidentally posted this comment in the wrong place.
Doubter
9/19/2019 09:08:41 pm
Thanks for your responses. They are appreciated. Your last comment has no "Reply" button, so I'm starting a new thread.
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Doubter
9/19/2019 09:12:55 pm
My last comment was truncated apparently. This is the rest of it:
Reply
9/20/2019 03:05:38 pm
First, bleh. I hate it when comments get truncated. I wish I could make it so you at least get a warning before your text just gets lost forever. 9/20/2019 04:27:26 pm
(cont) I haven't seen that documentary, but I'm not surprised women were weird to that imposter-lady. I mean, everything about her was a lie, no? And, undoubtedly, despite wearing boy clothes, it's impossible for her to truly embody a man. Her whole thing was she was misrepresenting herself, and every word out of her mouth was a lie. People are kind of good at detecting authenticity. So, having not see it, that's my gut impression.
Reply
9/20/2019 04:32:17 pm
(cont) >> If she was scared when a group of black men walked by, would they be "creepy"?
Doubter
9/21/2019 09:10:21 pm
Hi Eva,
Reply
9/22/2019 11:19:36 am
I know "it depends on context" isn't a satisfying answer, and it's not an EASY answer, but it's true. Every person and situation is different, which is part of why giving advice on interpersonal topics is so hard. You can't just say, "If someone did X and the other person did Y, is that fair?" because so much is missing from that hypothetical. The whole point of this post is that you HAVE to pay attention to the social cues, because in most cases (yes, I acknowledged, some women are superficial or judge-y, but some men are also jerks) that's going to be a key factor in whether someone finds you creepy.
Ben
2/4/2020 03:14:15 pm
I just want to say that I loved reading this exchange. There were moments where I felt like y'all were talking past each other a little, but I'm really impressed with how you were both generally able to keep it civil and bring up interesting points.
Nomad
9/20/2019 06:26:07 am
This is moronic. It’s extremely hypocritical in an age where women cry about fat shaming and everything else under the sun. So you say a man can’t even talk to a woman if he isn’t hot enough? Get off your high horse, most of these women aren’t exactly hotties themselves. Even if they were it doesn’t mean you have some right to be nasty to people without getting negative feed back. You don’t have to date people you aren’t attracted too but have some common courtesy.
Reply
9/20/2019 02:27:35 pm
I said none of those things -- don't be so hypersensitive. Take a deep breath, calm down, and actually read the article.
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Anonymous
9/22/2019 02:07:37 pm
"I wouldn't date a fat dude, either. How could he possibly keep up with me on my multi-day hiking trips, surf adventures, etc.?" 9/24/2019 03:13:21 pm
Well, in that case, it sounds like your girlfriend had shitty friends. They must not have known her that well, to not even know that her boyfriend was on the football team (college sports are a HUGE time commitment, to the point that "student-athlete" can feel like a misnomer -- so how the heck would a caring friend miss that?). The questions they were asking her also sound super invasive and obnoxious and ignorant. These definitely sound like the types of girls that are unnecessarily cruel, and it sucks that both of you had to deal with them.
Anonymous
9/22/2019 06:53:59 pm
* I doubt that you would like it if a man wrote a piece criticizing the various things he didn't like about certain women's body parts.
Reply
9/24/2019 02:54:03 pm
I'm not a social justice warrior. I think men are allowed to like or dislike whatever women's body parts they want, from stomach fat to small boobs to "lady dicks."
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Anonymous
9/25/2019 08:52:00 am
This does not comport with your prior sentiment of people being "shallow jerks."
Your mom
4/28/2021 05:55:44 pm
Men already do that. Pretty often actually
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qmulus
10/8/2019 04:42:20 pm
>"But another part of the reason may be that attractive men simply have more experience talking to and flirting with women. Communication is hard and messy, and the only way to get good at it is through practice."
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DB
2/19/2020 07:27:27 pm
"And she shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable and objectified by some creepy dude she doesn't even like just because you were too lazy or emotional to examine and correctly interpret the interactions."
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2/20/2020 12:41:01 pm
You can call me ableist all you want, but you will NEVER hear me say that women need to tolerate discomfort to make someone else comfortable, even if that someone else is somehow more "oppressed" than women.
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James
2/21/2020 05:22:25 pm
Good day, Eva. 2/25/2020 08:34:23 pm
James, I think you forgot to read the article before commenting... I wouldn't tolerate creepy behavior from any man, no matter how attractive he is, and that's clearly stated in this and other posts.
Jason
3/6/2020 11:49:17 am
Here’s a hypothetical situation that men face Jow would you resolve it.
Reply
3/7/2020 10:17:45 am
This one is easy.
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Dude
3/18/2020 11:47:31 am
I agree with the central point. The defining element of whether attention is harassment is whether the attention is desired or not. Even as a romantically unsuccessful dude, I've had romantic attention that I would have rathered not have, so I have some inkling of the feeling.
Reply
3/21/2020 11:42:37 am
"He must be rich," is a thing I've overheard people say when they see the man I'm dating and observe (sometimes loudly) that he is not as attractive as I am. No... he's just smarter than pretty much anyone else I've ever met, kinder and more compassionate and funnier and more exciting to be with than other people I know. For me, attractiveness is a pleasant bonus, but it's not a priority.
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Star Fall
11/26/2020 11:12:20 am
@eva
Joe
2/21/2021 09:29:05 pm
Star Fall, the data you've posted is interesting, but you must be very careful about what conclusions you can draw from it. This is especially true given that the data is from an online dating site and may not transfer over to a real-life scenario well.
Grindstone
4/4/2020 09:51:34 pm
You talk a big game but you strike me as a typical narcissist in the method that you use to respond to people but completely ignore major points of their argument.
Reply
4/5/2020 01:33:18 pm
Honey... you've done the same thing everyone else who failed to make their point did.
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Sheikh Yerbooty
4/25/2021 03:30:49 pm
Don't expect people who make these kinds of blogposts to have anything other than a smug sense of superiority.
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Joe
4/29/2021 06:12:19 pm
Lol,Sheikh you're so hateful against women. What's your deal?
Sheikh Yerbooty
5/2/2021 10:05:49 am
You're misinformed here. I don't actually dislike women. Or at least not 100% of them. But at the same time I see a very clear pattern here in the comments: guys revealing their weaknesses and Eva coming in and kicking at them. I know concern trolling when I see it.
Joe
5/2/2021 10:52:58 am
How could I be misinformed? I don't know you or anyone who knows you? How could anyone have given me incorrect information about you?
Social
4/10/2020 09:04:08 am
This problem is solved when women approach men and ask them out....but they won't. *shrug*
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6/8/2020 11:05:01 am
Some will. I wouldn't hesitate to ask someone out if I found him interesting. In fact, I would go so far as to say if I didn't ask, I wasn't interested.
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Truth Bringer
5/31/2020 02:27:33 am
So basically what you're saying is; if a person is born ugly, they will never get to experience happiness. Seriously, why bother letting them spend a lifetime wondering why they don't get to be happy? With this type of distortion and unfair bias, basically what you're saying is; "Ugly people may as well kill themselves."
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6/8/2020 11:12:53 am
I'm not sure where you read that, but it wasn't on this website.
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Jay
8/15/2020 01:31:39 pm
Actually, it is you typical dumb fat white feminist Nazi trash. Bitches like this think they are all strong and tough but look for a mangina type man to defend them
Paul
8/30/2020 09:39:47 am
But as a physically unattractive guy, I have zero chance to even establish myself as attractive in another way, because, as another commentator said above, “[c]urrently we live in a society where women are encouraged to be as shitty as possible while men are policed for even the most minor infractions.“ Another element of this is the widespread shallowness of society in general - many (most?) women simply don’t give physically unattractive guys any chance at all. We might become platonic friends based on one or more shared interests, etc., but there is *never* a chance of anything other than that. Guys are often told to show their romantic / sexual interest in a woman they find attractive in the first 2-3 interactions, but for us unattractive guys, that appears to be a one way ticket to rejection or worse... In the face of all this, I don’t bother expressing interest in women at all.
Casa Jova
6/7/2020 09:48:23 am
There are a couple of themes worth addressing against the point men are making on a recurring basis here.
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Jay
8/15/2020 01:39:03 pm
"he politely giggles and declines, and you tip your hat and stroll away"
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Mike
8/23/2020 08:40:42 am
What assault? Someone call the police!!!
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Mike
8/23/2020 08:42:48 am
Continued:
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mike
8/23/2020 08:45:17 am
who I stopped to talk to on her smoke break.
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Mike
8/23/2020 09:09:04 am
One last thing - if a woman thinks you're "creepy" just for showing an interest in her, you really shouldn't care.
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Hari
3/12/2021 09:22:24 pm
You're speaking my mind Mike. This article at best misused language and filled with unrealistic expectations, and at worst poisoned with a big huge of self-entirlement. Welcome to one of the strong forts of today's men shaming culture.
Daddy govt
7/1/2020 03:29:04 pm
I think all your comments should be canceled for being ugly & bias comments, & until you respond to cat observer we don't believe you are not just helping in pushing an agenda to destroy society.
Reply
7/4/2020 08:59:11 am
I can tell from your first sentence that you are overemotional and incapable of reason. But I'll try to address a few of your rantings, anyway.
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Daddy govt
10/14/2020 10:11:55 am
"I can tell from your first sentence that you are overemotional and incapable of reason. But I'll try to address a few of your rantings, anyway."- 10/14/2020 08:53:57 pm
I won't try to reason with you, because you' obviously rather play the victim than figure out how to behave in a way that isn't entitled and creepy, but re: the Walmart thing. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure what happened, but here's what I think based on what you've said:
Jay
8/15/2020 01:44:43 pm
"I think all your comments should be canceled for being ugly"
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Jay
8/15/2020 01:04:40 pm
Firstly, this woman Eva is a disgusting Fat bodied subhuman SLOB.
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TN
10/4/2020 04:57:29 pm
Even if women were forced to talk to men, it wouldn't affect you at all because you're not a man. You're a boy packing nothing but failure.
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Sam
9/9/2020 01:09:15 pm
If your a feminist, and if you complain about being harassed, then you are an ignorant little bitch
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9/9/2020 11:21:25 pm
If my a feminist what, now?
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Allen
10/2/2020 11:20:11 am
So your advice to a short (5’5”) not-conventionally attractive introverted shy guy, your advice would basically be never to approach any woman because I just don’t have a chance?
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10/4/2020 01:28:43 pm
Yeah, that's TOTALLY what I said! Good job reading the article before commenting!!
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Tipsy
10/4/2020 04:48:40 pm
It's hilarious to see all these dudes desperately trying to sound intelligent, while writing different variations of the same thing, which is:
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Tairu
10/14/2020 05:33:32 am
Yet.. Here you are as well. With the need to make that self-gratifying comment. Way to male shame. I got a good feeling these attn seeking articles will stop now. All because of your great comment. Thks
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Damond
10/24/2020 07:14:03 am
The best thing to do is to not talk to women at all man.. Stay to yourself, it's not worth it, they're not worth it...
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10/24/2020 07:19:37 am
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Omg, I thought this was satire for a second, but I think you're being serious.
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Damond Moore
10/24/2020 08:18:38 am
And second of all, maturity hasn't gotten me anywhere if for the simple fact that I'm unattractive. So kick your bull shit to a sucker who believes that shit.
Anonymous
12/18/2020 06:43:37 am
Your "advice" in your article is not helpful. And stop making heartless responses to people you know are thinking about suicide. How disgusting are you?
Damond Moore
10/24/2020 08:14:02 am
You're a woman so I expected that reply, but you don't know me. I have two jobs, pay my own bills with no help at all. I'm a very independent man and for you to call me a child because I don't want to live in a world full devil's in blue dresses is some bull shit. Y'all are evil as fuck!
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10/24/2020 08:17:27 am
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a big man with TWO WHOLE JOBS. Which is why it's so weird you have this defeated, childlike attitude. Women REALLY aren't into that "Boo-hoo! Poor me!!" thing -- from an evolutionary perspective, women who went for men like that died, because they attached themselves to someone who was helpless and defeated.
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Cat Observer
10/30/2020 12:01:55 pm
Why can't you take him at his word? He might just be unattractive. I know a doctor who is compassionate and smart. He is mature and volunteers at city clean up events. He's also a 36 year old virgin. And that's no surprise. He is a 5'6'' Asian man. If he was a woman, taller, had a better face, or white he would be married by now. If his family stayed in China he might have found a wife by now, but in America he has to compete with white guys so even Asian women don't want him. 11/2/2020 09:03:07 am
If he were truly that wonderful, he'd've found a partner by now. There's obviously some interpersonal dysfunction going on there that's creeping people out or driving women away.
Damond Moore
10/24/2020 08:44:38 am
Like I said you don't know me, and this is not a boo hoo moment. Just imagine you were a man, and you turned down by every woman that you came across. Anytime you went out with your friend's or male family members, women would approach them leaving you out to dry and look at you with a bit of disgust.. And the shit just keeps happening like a revolving door. Let that sink in for a minute! And yeah yeah I know, men aren't entitled to a women, I get that and respect that. You also have to respect the fact that a lot of men will get tired of going through that bs, and get so numb that they won't care to be women anymore and just say fuck it.
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11/2/2020 08:57:15 am
If that happened to me, I would find another way to meet women instead of doing the same thing over and over, even though it clearly wasn't working. Like... you know there are other dating strategies, right?
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Cat
10/30/2020 11:51:36 am
Right now 1 in 3 18-24 year old men haven't had sex in a year. I doubt all of these men are just "immature man babies" who need to grow up.
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11/2/2020 08:55:59 am
They wouldn't be incels if they had something to offer. However, they're whiny little boys with little or nothing to offer women, so obviously no woman wants them.
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Cat
12/2/2020 08:39:19 am
You can't blame the individual men when the number of incels is that large, especially since this wasn't the case a decade ago. Clearly some large scale societal forces beyond these men's control are at work.
Gloria
4/19/2021 07:02:36 am
Jordan Peterson also said if multiple women reject you the fault lies in you and not in the women. Also isn't socially enforced monogamy already a thing? If your partner cheats, you don't stick with them do you? That my friend is enforced monogamy, cheating is not socially acceptable.
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Sheikh Yerbooty
4/29/2021 05:39:09 am
@Gloria,
Joe
4/29/2021 05:38:42 pm
There's a difference between cheating and non-monogamous relationships, and that is the lying.
exdeath
11/8/2020 09:42:14 pm
Every single response you're making to people has been rife with ad-hominem. It seems that every time someone challenges your viewpoint, your first instinct is to jump to calling them "incel". I have no doubt you'll do something similar with my own comment, so I may as well tell you my own two cents - you seem like a frustrated individual who has little reason to be frustrated at all.
Reply
11/9/2020 03:03:23 am
I have no reason to be frustrated -- my life is awesome!
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Mike
11/13/2020 01:26:47 am
"They wouldn't be incels if they had something to offer."
Lis
11/15/2020 08:15:07 am
Dear Eva,
exdeath
11/20/2020 07:40:53 pm
you're doing it right now.
Anderson
12/17/2020 08:49:08 pm
"Social skills are just that. Skills. You can learn them if you want to."
Anderson
1/12/2021 04:34:51 pm
Mike,
Sascha
11/15/2020 08:31:58 am
I can't see how a well adjusted, happy person, living an awesome life could write an article like this, respond to commenters challenging it's central thesis (those ignorant bodyshaming posts and the like aside) with vitriol and condescension, and be generally closed minded and mean spirited. I would be utterly ashamed to type these sorts of things, let alone post them for the the internet to read.
Reply
11/15/2020 06:56:15 pm
That's a great question. I'm glad you asked! There are three reasons I don't sugarcoat my replies to comments:
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Mike
11/18/2020 02:39:10 pm
Hello Eva 11/19/2020 06:27:24 am
So technically the reply was to "Sascha," not you. But.
Sheikh Yerbooty
5/2/2021 09:51:06 am
>>I call people out on their bullshit because ultimately, that's what's going to help them the most -- and it's the kind of feedback that can be the rarest and hardest to get.<<
Joe
5/2/2021 10:55:43 am
@Sheikh,
Devon
11/15/2022 06:02:27 am
Eva Glasrud- Most men are not complaining about women who care about physical appearance. We know women care about that and fine with it. The problem lies when alot of women have unrealistic standards :(looks ,money, height, great personality, ect. ) Alot of women have these list in their laundry list of requirements. However, men only care about looks and personality. Another thing is women have unrealistic expectations on how men should treat women....in fact , it is down right contradictary- for instance, women expect men to ask them out,open doors ,give up their seat, pay for dates and the list goes on. Women expect men to do all the work in dating and don't want to do equal effort. You forget that it is MEN who ask women out and women EXPECT men to ask them out. If the men doesn't meet her expectations (looks,money,height) the guy is blocked. What I am saying is you hear how women complain about men's standards but the truth is women's standards are far worse.
Snipes
11/29/2020 09:37:33 am
I bet these unattractive men in the comments aren’t trying to date women in their own league but only want women much hotter than themselves. If you’re not willing to date a woman less attractive then don’t be mad when a hottie doesn’t want to date you. She is no more or less shallow than you are.
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Cat
12/2/2020 08:26:31 am
Unless a society enforces monogamy the top 20% of men will take 80% of the women (actual numbers may vary). So an average girl can get fucked by Chads every night and still not be able to lock down one any of these Chads for a long term relationship. But every Chad that rails her out gives her hope that one day she'll marry a rich stud. Her looks match, an average guy, meanwhile only matches with very ugly girls on Tinder and would rather go without.
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Sana
12/13/2020 04:15:05 am
Dude, where the hell do you get these ideas from? Also, did you really say Chad? That and your other answers make you seem like a textbook nice guy.
Chris
8/17/2021 03:54:48 am
Nah, you are projecting your own shallow outlook on the world. To talk about “leagues” when comes to dating preferences is both vile and childish and shows a low emotional intelligence.
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Chris
7/12/2022 04:30:33 am
Lol, this business about "leagues," of attractiveness!!! I am assuming I am posting on page aimed at adults but please correct me if I am wrong.
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zack50
12/7/2020 08:45:13 am
The level of entitlement from women in these comments is frankly astonishing. You actually think you're entitled to ruin a man's career or set a twitter mob on him because he committed the crime of asking you out when you don't find him attractive? Wow.
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Anderson
12/17/2020 05:38:46 pm
Anyone who does that, man or woman, is just as vile as any deviant the author of this blog is complaining about.
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Azmodan
12/12/2020 08:22:47 pm
"Yes, all else equal, women like men who are tall and handsome. BUT. What's going to be a lot more important than that in the long-run is his ability to provide"...
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Azmodan
1/9/2021 07:00:10 pm
So you admit you're a gold-digging whore who basically only values a man based on what he can give you, not what he is... 1/9/2021 07:26:11 pm
Nope. I admit that I don't think you have very good reading comprehension skills because you are too emotional to understand what you read.
Prescott Czygan
1/14/2021 08:29:11 am
Women in general just plain suck. Stop demonizing men and how we do things”a. Women left it up to us to do the approaching so we will continue to approach. If a women says you are creepy then remind her she’s just a stuck up bitch. STOP BEING NICE TO THEM. STOP CATERING TO THEIR FEELINGS. START ACTING LIKE MEN AGAIN AND TAKE WHAT YOU WANT. WOMEN BE DAMNED.
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1/20/2021 05:53:44 am
It's very stupid that you think simply "approaching" a woman is going to lead to something, whether you do it well or not. You can't just throw a basketball at a hoop -- well, you can, I guess, but it will never go in and people are going to call you names because you suck and they're going to do anything they can to keep you off their team. Same with approaching women. The way you do it clearly sucks or people wouldn't be calling you creepy. Figure out a better way to do it.
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Andrew
1/16/2021 11:15:17 am
Eva, you come off as creepy and egotistic in this post and the ensuing comments. You should consider taking your own advice.
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1/20/2021 05:47:16 am
Haha, yes, I am totally going around in this post hitting on people who clearly aren't interested in me.
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Devin
11/15/2022 06:10:48 am
You have an unrealistic view on how dating works. You watch to money Disney princess theme films. Unfortunately. Alot of women are like this. They expect that prince charming who dots everything the lady wants(height , money ,looks ect) when she wants it and only when she wants it. If the guy doesn't have one of those things she will dismiss him. Relationships are based on shared work and interests. Not only what he can do for you. 11/18/2022 08:58:06 pm
Once again, I have NO idea where you're getting this shit. I know plenty of fat, ugly, poor people who are married. The issue isn't money or looks. It's creepiness.
Rob
7/23/2021 08:35:11 pm
Andrew, you definitely struck a nerve here with EVA. Apparently she doesn't appreciate having her own faults mirrored back upon her.
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7/24/2021 10:38:43 am
He didn't strike a nerve, you silly. I'm trying to HELP him because loneliness is so painful so so many people, and the sooner people like you and Andrew realize what you're doing wrong, the sooner you'll start creeping fewer people out, and you might end up with a partner, instead of lonely and alone.
mabalahibo
1/24/2021 08:01:05 pm
So if I'm ugly I just have to find another way to approach flirting differently.
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1/25/2021 09:45:09 am
It's not "repulsive" for you to TALK to them. It's repulsive for you to HIT ON someone who isn't interested. If you are ugly, you should get to know people before hitting on them, or the only thing they will have to judge you by are your looks, so they will obviously reject you.
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mabalahibo
1/26/2021 04:13:21 pm
I was being sarcastic.
Doug
7/4/2021 02:08:46 pm
As Paul said above - and I’m in the same situation - as a physically unattractive guy, I have zero chance to even establish myself as attractive in another way, because, as another commentator said above, “[c]urrently we live in a society where women are encouraged to be as shitty as possible while men are policed for even the most minor infractions.“ Another element of this is the widespread shallowness of society in general - many (most?) women simply don’t give physically unattractive guys any chance at all. We might become platonic friends based on one or more shared interests, etc., but there is *never* a chance of anything other than that. Guys are often told to show their romantic / sexual interest in a woman they find attractive in the first 2-3 interactions, but for us unattractive guys, that appears to be a one way ticket to rejection or worse... In the face of all this, I don’t bother expressing interest in women at all.
Allen
1/28/2021 01:15:30 pm
Nobody has ever called me creepy or anything remotely similar - in fact women always seem genuinely happy when I introduce myself and strike up a conversation with them. I have women friends who tell me repeatedly that I am definitely *not* creepy and that I understand women better than most guys. In fact, women regularly ask me if I'm in a relationship and are surprised when I tell them I've always been single. Irrespective of my friends' and others' kind (and honest) words, I have always believed that with women I'm attracted to, asking for what I want (a kiss, a date, etc.,) would be creepy / offensive, and as such, I have never done any of those things. When I ask women friends of mine *how* to express interest, they say the usual things - "just ask", "escalate with flirting", "break the touch barrier", etc., - none of which I feel I can do because I'm certain my doing so would be offensive. I like the direct heartfelt approach you take in your responses to other comments, Eva - do you have any thoughts on mine? Thanks in advance.
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Devon
11/15/2022 06:22:50 am
I think it isn't a good idea to listen to the ladies you asked on how to express interest in dating . Everything they say (especially breaking the touch barrier) can lead to a false accusation case. The problem is each women has their own level of comfort. I think you should ask a woman on a date but do not listen to their advise or at least take it at a grain of salt.
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11/18/2022 08:56:22 pm
"Breaking the touch barrier" is an almost guaranteed way to be seen as creepy. You shouldn't touch someone for the sake of touching them. It should be mutual and reciprocated. It should feel right, not just be something you do because someone told you to.
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I have a question that has me puzzled.. so for example I was working at this club cleaning up basically every night. So one night I take a penis pill and I get a call to come in and work.. so the site is at a different location because moving so I’m super excited. I can control my erection and let it all go to my head. So I’m literally showing almost everyone I know my dick instantly. I get called “crazy” so as I’m going to work in the car I get out back and walk down the stairs and this lady Elaine is there nobody is looking so I flash her my penis. She actually zipped my pants back up.. that was annoying but I was so horny I didn’t let it bother me I just went to work. So I see her again and she calls me crazy and says “I’m buggin” so I said ME TOO. Then I get her number at the end of the day. Long story short. My question is “Do I really have to show my Johnson in order to get somebody’s attention?” This is what is driving me crazy 24/7 everyday, I need insight because nobody in my life understands me unless they see me naked im real Time. Help?
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Dawson
2/11/2021 07:52:29 am
Hey Eva,
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2/12/2021 06:24:30 pm
I don't know Linda. She might be a good person. She might be joking, in which case, good for her. Jokes are funny and I like humor. She might be serious, in which case, yes, I would judge her for this assuming it means what you think it does: that the exact same behavior is either harassment or not based only on the man's physical attractiveness (which is a really weird premise, because, as I wrote in the post, "identical" behaviors are not identical when the women's response is positive vs. negative -- continuing to flirt when someone isn't reciprocating is creepy).
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Jorge CMP
5/26/2021 07:37:18 am
Is it too difficult to admit that those women are just being assholes?
Shabbis
2/26/2021 07:46:53 pm
All is "fair" in love, but what is not is incriminating, or holding people legally liable, for something as subjective, unpredictable, and unreliable as "attraction". Have I met my share of women whom I don't find attractive? Sure. But to call harassment simply because someone I am not attracted to, approaches me, talks to me, or even flirt with me? Absolutely not. Try this in a different region of the world, I can guarantee you some of these types of "harassment" claims will never make it into a joke. We live in a great society where we protect those whom other cultures deem "weak", this places an incredible amount of pressure and stress on those expected to cater to protected groups.
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2/27/2021 05:23:52 am
If you didn't do anything wrong, there is a 99.9% chance no one's going to take you to court over it. I have no idea where this strange fear comes from, but it's not reality.
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Devon
11/15/2022 06:34:39 am
The problem is different women have different versions of creepy. One women will call a man creepy if says hello(and yes this does happen) while the other doesn't. Another issue you expect men to be mind readers. What is criteria for creepy? Asking out women multiples time... possibly. Unfortunately. Women expect to be asked out multiple times (and how do I know... I know because they complain about it) women have said to men or other men that a guy didn't ask her out again. 11/18/2022 08:53:20 pm
No, women do not "expect to be asked out multiple times." You're being ridiculous.
Zhuan
2/26/2021 08:00:36 pm
I see you are a backpacker, I would be curious to see you share all of your thoughts on this page with someone in an Asian country. It could be any...Israel, China, Japan, Afghanistan... These "values" are not so universal I'm afraid. You can prove me wrong, but as someone who have lived there, I can tell you people don't even have translations for some of the terms like "LGBT" "Manspreading". I would really be interested to hear your thoughts after you compare it with non-western cultural norms (which take up about half of this world)...
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2/27/2021 05:21:07 am
I'm not a brainless moron who supports "diversity" for the sake of diversity. Not every part of every culture deserves my respect, and I call out backwards, 3rd century bullshit when I see it. I know a lot of feminism is extremely anti-woman and anti-science right now, but that's not me. (See also: http://www.thehappytalent.com/blog/sorry-but-no-not-every-part-of-every-culture-deserves-my-respect and http://www.thehappytalent.com/blog/if-you-care-about-womens-rights-stop-saying-that-islam-is-a-religion-of-peace and http://www.thehappytalent.com/blog/everyday-feminism-just-posted-the-worst-advice-ever-for-women-poc-and-other-marginalized-folks.)
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Rob
7/24/2021 11:14:19 am
Lol, Eva, it seems I struck a few nerves with you. I offer my sincere apologies for that.
Rob
7/23/2021 08:25:32 pm
Very good point. Notice how Eva immediately went on the defensive. I think you struck a nerve with her there. Perhaps you reminded her, briefly, of just how western, entitled, and privileged she is.
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7/24/2021 10:44:48 am
LOL. "Western." Rob, you're from New York.
Doug
2/28/2021 08:31:00 am
You say I shouldn’t ask a woman out unless I’m sure she’ll say yes. Since I’m never certain (99% of the time it’s very clear she’ll say no), I never ask.
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Doug
3/3/2021 07:05:26 pm
A fact that isn’t often raised is that a guy must be realistic when it comes to trying to attract women. In my case, I know I’m unable to attract any woman no matter what I do so I don’t do anything - the comments by women pictured at the top of this article apply to me in any setting and with any woman no matter what I do or how I do it. There is no way any woman would ever be sexually interested in me when there are other guys around. I do not have what other guys have (no matter who they are) to attract women. I’ve seen therapists, hired dating coaches and gone out with male friends who are successful with women and with women friends who’ve been sort of wingwomen for me. Nothing has worked and none of them understand (or if they do have told me) what the issue(s) is/are.
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3/4/2021 07:06:23 am
Are you hitting on girls who are out of your league? Are you expressing sexual interest before you've established any shared interest or friendship? Are you touching them when they don't want to be touched because your dating coach said something dumb like "violate her space" or "kiss her at the end of the date"?
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Doug
4/12/2021 07:04:02 am
I’m a zero, so I never approach any woman. I have many women friends but never has there been even a hint of romantic / sexual interest in me from anyone. This tells me there is no point in expressing my interest in women I’m attracted to - it’s guaranteed no matter what I do would be creepy.
Ricaard
8/7/2022 10:02:16 am
You're making conclusions about a person you don't know... I'm not tryna be mean but that's sketchy as hell... what about he's just ugly or undesirable in a way that can't be fixed? What's wrong with that?
Joe
8/12/2022 03:31:58 pm
Well actually, the comment doesn't come to any conclusions about the original poster, so I'm not sure where you're coming from with this complaint.
Devon
11/15/2022 06:45:46 am
Eva - women usually go out of their league... so to speak ...because they require a man to be tall, rich or earn alot of money and good looking plus be an excellent conversationalist while men require only looks and personality. Men are simple. We do not ask for much. 11/18/2022 08:51:16 pm
Devon, I know a lot of fat, ugly, poor guys who are happily married, so I'm not sure where you're getting your information from.
Joe
4/12/2021 03:54:27 pm
Hi Doug,
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Doug
4/12/2021 05:15:31 pm
Hi Joe - I don’t know anything about Robert other than what they tell us. I work out 4x per week and climb waterfalls as a hobby. I eat well and take care of myself; I am certainly not “hideously deformed”. None of these things mean a thing when it comes to attracting women and as a result I have never expressed interest in any woman no matter how attracted I am to her. Since flirting has to be mutual - and no woman has ever flirted with me - I’m not about to put myself out there and get charged with a crime for expressing interest. This is why I am a zero.
Joe
4/12/2021 07:24:33 pm
Doug, that sounds pretty bad ass, I wanna try that now. Does that mean what you're telling me is that you are physically attractive to women, but that your fear of being accused of something criminal has influenced you to decide to take yourself of the dating market? And so you consider yourself a zero even though your real number is probably like at least a four?
Doug
4/22/2021 09:15:24 am
Hi Joe - whether I am "physically attractive to women" is for individual women to decide. I do what I do to be healthy and active. As the article suggests, flirting has to be mutual. Given that no woman has shown signs of romantic / sexual interest in (flirted with) me, I have never initiated. Doing so in a society where many women are of the mind that unless a guy is attractive, any advance is creepy, I would be opening myself to potential legal issues.
Joe
4/22/2021 12:13:56 pm
Hello again Doug,
Doug
5/4/2021 05:54:11 pm
Hi Joe - I have conversations with women regularly and have many women friends. What I’m talking about is romantic interest. No woman has ever shown interest of that sort in me and so the logical conclusion is that I am fundamentally unattractive on those levels. Given this, flirting (showing romantic / sexual interest) would never be mutual so I never initiate no matter how attractive I find a woman. I’ve asked my women friends about this and they tell me I do get signals of interest from women. But since I never see them myself I do not initiate.
Chris
1/10/2022 05:08:03 am
Hi Doug, Flirting is used to gage the romantic interest of the other party. It does not have to initially be mutual. You are using it to gently hint you are interested and to see how this person responds. If she flirts back then you have a bases to build upon. Flirting should only be a problem if someone has told you they are not interested but you are failing to take that lack of interest on board.
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Doug
2/14/2022 11:59:18 am
I would never attempt to flirt with anyone - the foregone conclusion is that no matter how good a social - for want of a better term - rapport I may have established with a woman, any inkling that I might be interested in a woman would be offensive. “Dating” (going out for coffee in a public place) is as far as it can go for me - it can never “lead to flirting”. I do not possess whatever quality it is that makes women sexually attracted to men and so “gauging the romantic interest” of any woman is pointless - there is and cannot be any.
Hari
2/14/2022 09:08:42 pm
Doug,
Hari
2/14/2022 09:16:22 pm
.. you would still at least enjoy some intimacy with the opposite sex* in a* tasteful setting.
Joe Gallagher
8/12/2022 03:49:09 pm
Hari, the advice you've given here is a great contribution. I would agree with you that any men feeling their situation is hopeless should absolutely get out there and try learning to dance. As Hari said, even if you don't date any of the fellow dancers the confidence and social skills you gain from interacting and talking with women will be invaluable and help you realize they're just people too.
Chris
4/7/2023 02:21:38 am
Hi Doug,
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Paul
3/4/2021 08:54:52 am
First, let me say that men can be pigs, sexual harrassment is real, and that it is a problem. Secondly, as an older man I have witness TRUE sexual harrassment and have testified for a female college against a male who was the victim. All that being said, 90% of sexual harrassment is pure BS. Women want it both ways.
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3/5/2021 06:22:37 am
"All that being said, 90% of sexual harrassment [sic] is pure BS."
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Paul McKenzie
3/5/2021 06:47:47 am
Eva, I was citing my over 30 yrs of work experience. Secondly, I am catching a hard whiff of misandry from from. Men are not inherently "pathetic." We HATE rejection and dejection. We have healthy egos and being turned down hurts. 3/6/2021 05:22:55 am
So anecdotes, then? Cool.
Bonaventura Aristo
7/9/2021 08:30:24 pm
So, you only want to wait in the finish line and you don't care about men's struggle? Typical entitled woman
Devon
11/15/2022 06:59:58 am
Eva - Yes. Women should have the right decide who they flirt with but so do men. Men should have the right to decide who they flirt with. Unfortunately, you say they shouldn't flirt unless it is mutual interest. Sure, if the guy keeps on asking after a polite "I am not interested" then you may have a point. The problem lies when you say men Shouldn't ask women out Unless SHE shows interest. This is wrong for multiple reasons but one of them is women expect men to ask them out and do the flirting. When you have that drastic expectation for an entire gender it can be seen as double standard. The double standard is women expect men to do the asking but also want only certain men and only at certain locations,times ect but women also say if the man doesn't have balls to ask me out me out I am not interested. Which one is it?
Hari
3/14/2021 11:41:36 pm
@Paul
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Hari
3/17/2021 12:58:41 pm
Update: as mentioned elsewhere in this comments thread, I realized later I'd made a mixing-up mistake as I was reading from several different blogs on the day I made my comment and realized that I wasn't really responding to the right article!! I therefore take what I said in my earlier comment dated March 14 back and it doesn't reflect what I think about this article at all.
Giovanni
3/5/2021 10:08:42 pm
Regardless of what society really thinks about ugly and handsome men approaching women, Eva's article is deeply flawed because its grotesquely biased and unsympathetic. Not against "ugly men" and not even against "men", but against whoever takes the initiative (since women can also be the approachers).
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3/6/2021 05:17:26 am
This is why people call you creepy. If I'm sitting by myself at a table with headphones in, if I'm working out at the gym, if I'm talking to my friends at a karaoke night, and you decide you want to "approach" -- that is, interrupt -- me, I have no "burden" to share with you. The idea that I "owe" you something because you interrupted what I was doing to express sexual interest... that's creepy. I have no "burden" -- I wasjust trying to read my book!
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Giovanni
3/6/2021 08:55:49 am
I honestly think it's amazing how many straw man fallacies you can insert on a two paragraph lazy answer that don't address 90% of what I said. 3/7/2021 07:06:08 pm
Lol. "Debating." If you can't make your point without using boring, cliched jargon, I'm not sure it counts as debating. But okay.
Giovanni
3/8/2021 10:05:35 am
>> "Lol. 'Debating.' If you can't make your point without using boring, cliched jargon, I'm not sure it counts as debating. But okay."
Giovanni (Continuation)
3/8/2021 10:09:12 am
(Just finising my last comment since it was cut off)
Rob
7/23/2021 07:45:15 pm
I have to admit here that I have found all of your posts on this article to be very intelligent, comprehensive rebuttals to every one of the author's biased points. Very well done and very well written. Your posts should be required reading for people to completely understand the nature of this overall issue and how the double standards and prejudices you point out play out in it all. Also your points showing how repeated re-enforcement from societal standards of beauty, success, and station have become the driving force behind, and the litmus test for, how this cliche has been perpetuated throughout modern history and continues to endure today.
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Lennert Cornette
3/6/2021 04:19:49 am
This is obviously written by a woman. Friendzoning exists. It doesn't mean women owe sex to guys, it means women KNOWING a guy has feelings for her but REFUSING to tell him how she feels. In stead of being clear she just keeps him around for attention, which is horrible. THAT is what friendzoning means.
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3/6/2021 05:07:32 am
The phrase you are looking for is "leading him on, " not friend zoning.
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Lennert Cornette
3/6/2021 05:13:25 am
It's the same. You put a person who has feelings for you into a zone, where they have no chance of getting love or sex. Most men don't do this, while nearly all women do it. It's partly men's fault too, because we should walk away from those situations and not orbit around her together with 50 other dudes. I've had 4 women who had feelings for me, within 2 weeks I told them it wasn't mutual and didn't see them again. It's hard but it's way better than giving someone false hope. It's toxix feminity at its best. 3/6/2021 05:30:04 am
Ah, so the word you are looking for is "not sex slaves who are obligated to have sex with anyone who is interested." You are correct. Women are not sex slaves who are obligated to have sex with anyone who is interested.
markgi;
3/7/2021 03:30:17 pm
google the youtube video "women are assholes at bar" from 2012 which was likely done as satire but is now an all too harsh reality for the vast majority of men. this 1 minute 23 second video is an example of the supremely powerful unconscious bias know as the Halo Effect:and why there are only two rules women have for men when it comes to dating:
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markgil
3/8/2021 02:09:03 am
perhaps not but the video in question is also supported by many studies which prove that women care just as much if not more so than men about a potential partners physical appearance. in fact, just a lack of height alone is enough to exclude interest from the vast majority of women regardless of whatever else a man may have to offer. at only a patheitc 5'6 myself, i know this all too well from my own personal experience. add in a below average face & shaved head and it's game over as far as dating & relationships.
Devon
11/15/2022 07:07:56 am
EVA- You said in your other comments to not ask women out or show interest and only be friends . Now, this comment(Lennerd cornette) you say if he doesn't show his interest first it is his fault. I thought you said men shouldn't do that 11/18/2022 08:48:35 pm
DEVON - I said that if you're going to ask someone out at work, you need to be 100% certain the answer is yes, or definitely do not do it.
Joe
3/9/2021 11:26:17 pm
Markgi,
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Hari
3/10/2021 06:42:30 pm
"If you don't know she would say yes, you either need to practice developing your social skills.."
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3/12/2021 02:32:01 pm
I must be a mind reader, then, because I find it REALLY easy to tell when someone is into me.
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Chris
8/16/2021 04:41:56 am
Yes but you could be wrong about them wanting to date you. You could even be wrong about their level of interest in you!!! You might simply be a distraction on a very boring day - It happens! So how do you resolve the burden of finding out a genuine interest?
Hari
3/12/2021 02:53:58 pm
Wait do I have to be upset in order not to approve men shaming culture? That's new to me. It's not being upset that I feel; disgust, rather. I love the company of high quality girls (which come easy to me as a Latin dancer), but those never shame a man for doing his job as a pursuer, even if he happens to be clumsy and a complete failure in reading the signs. Petty him maybe. Sure. But not shaming him for trying.
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Joe
3/13/2021 01:44:51 pm
What I don't understand is why you believe this article shames men. Would you be willing to give it another read and then cite the part that makes you feel that way so I can understand where you and some of the other posters are coming from? I think a lot of people are either misinterpreting or skimming the article.
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Hari
3/15/2021 12:31:08 am
The author defined approaching "respectfully" as mind-reading their woman of interest. This a legit crazy requirement.
Joe
3/15/2021 06:53:05 pm
See this is what I thought. You and many other posters here aren't even reading the article. You obviously just read the title of that section and then got angry and started posting. If you actually read section 3, you'd have seen that it specifically relates to not asking women out AT WORK. Furthermore, it doesn't say anywhere in it that ugly guys shouldn't pursue women, you're adding that. What's even stranger is how you go from, "don't ask a woman out a work unless you're sure the answer is yes" to "If you're an ugly man, you should understand that you belong to a lower social class, and therefore you shouldn't even try.." That's quite the stretch don't you think? 3/15/2021 07:00:56 pm
Hari, why are you intentionally being a dumb dumb? I shouldn't have had to explain this to you, because it's all right there in the original post, but I did it, anyway, because sometimes people get emotional and it affects their reading comprehension. But at this point, I know you're just being a dumb dumb on purpose.
Paul McKenzie
3/14/2021 04:34:24 pm
The whole concept of a Creepy Guy" is subjective so for Eva to talk about anyone factual or based in science is nonsense. Everything she sights or opines on is anecdotal or opinion-based. What is "creepy" to one woman can "work" (bad wording, I know) on another woman.
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Joe
3/14/2021 06:38:04 pm
The author of this article never once claimed her opinions were fact. She simply provided some supporting evidence to better explain why she feels the way she does about this issue. You're free to disagree, but your comment doesn't even specify why you disagree. You're just giving your own anecdotal opinion, which you then hilariously go on to claim "is just fact" after criticizing the author for supposedly claiming her opinion as fact.
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Paul McKenzie
3/14/2021 08:12:08 pm
Joe, you make very good points and I DO paint with a broad brush. Yes, in my LONG experience on this earth, women do want it both ways. It is just the way it is and has always been and will be. Men need to be wise to this for it will never change. Does this give men carte blanche to be rude or to harrass? Of course not. Men should ALWAYS be respectful. They should also open their eyes and be realistic.
Joe
3/14/2021 08:39:37 pm
I may be misinterpreting your meaning, can you clarify what you mean by have it both ways?
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Paul McKenzie
3/14/2021 08:46:46 pm
"Having it both ways" is an inarticulate phrase. It is also inadequate. What I am trying to say is that women have the actual, tangible power in this transaction. Yes, men sexually harrass. They do this because they are inherently WEAK and have no other charm, charisma, etc to obtain the company of a woman the desire. They abuse their power and bully.
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Paul McKenzie
3/14/2021 08:49:01 pm
Joe,
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3/15/2021 07:03:14 pm
Only problem is, seeking out memes instead of self-improvement means you stay. right where you are and never improve. Loneliness is a really sad and terrible problem, and I wish these dudes were more motivated to fix it instead of acting like helpless little children and blaming women.
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Joe
3/15/2021 07:04:55 pm
I'm seeing the same thing, lonely men who're struggling and looking for answers. But believing this meme that only attractive men can find a mate in not the answer. Men find comfort in it because it allows to believe that it's women that are the problem, not them. So instead of looking at themselves and working on improving their health, hygeine, financial maturity, and social skills, they wallow in sorrow believing it's all hopeless and hating women for not being attracted to them.
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Ark Menetti
4/12/2022 02:20:29 pm
Nah, I'd rather hate women and douchebags like you. Of course I won't get love or sex but I have money(in a few years way more than you'll ever make) and plenty of books on stoicism. 4/12/2022 02:21:54 pm
LOL. You certainly don't sound very stoic to me. But enjoy your little books :)
Joe
8/12/2022 04:02:57 pm
Wow, such vitriol. And you wonder why you struggle with women?
Paul McKenzie
3/15/2021 07:15:08 pm
Yes, men need not wallow in self-pity. Women should also not go out of their way to make men feel less than human also. Many men are jaded because many women have completely demoralized them and humiliated them. Woman have had the same done to them by men also.
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Joe
3/15/2021 07:37:18 pm
I 100% agree that any woman who takes pleasure in needlessly putting a genuine man down is probably in the wrong. We all deserve love and respect. I also agree that sometimes this happens and it hurts, but learning to build up our confidence is another important self improvement skill. Once you have it, you just laugh in the face of rejection. This is also another trait women find attractive that can be learned.
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Hari
3/15/2021 08:42:58 pm
@Joe
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Joe
3/15/2021 09:55:52 pm
Hi again Hari,
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Micha
3/23/2021 11:55:43 am
Eva, I have to say, looking at your pictures, if you would approach me, I would find you creepy. I wouldn't like to talk to you first.
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3/23/2021 05:18:10 pm
Micah, I can tell from your writing style and thought process that I would never be attracted to you; therefore, if I were hitting on you, it WOULD be creepy, as I would clearly have some ulterior motive. But thanks for the Instagram follow!
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Hari
3/23/2021 05:41:46 pm
Micha,
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Joe
4/29/2021 04:25:17 pm
Lookism is definitely a thing, but that's a separate issue. Isn't the article good news? The article sets out to demonstrate that being ugly doesn't make you creepy and that you can still potentially find someone even if you are ugly.
Joe
4/29/2021 05:09:28 pm
I would also love to see a citation.
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Paul McKenzie
3/23/2021 02:11:12 pm
Micha, your final point is valid: many women care only about money, height, and looks. One the other hand, many men are just as damn superficial. Secondly (and most importantly) calling Eva "creepy" truly cheapens your post. We men detest the ambiguous label of "creepy" so why foist it back on a female? It serves zero purpose.
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Joe
4/29/2021 05:17:37 pm
Micha's final point is definitely not valid. See my response above.
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Ah Dh
3/29/2021 01:59:17 pm
I like how every single point here is attacking men, and not a single point is talking about what women do wrong...
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Paul
3/29/2021 03:35:47 pm
None of this is ever going to be solved or reconciled. Women want what they want, when they want it. And they get it. Men are assholes and contribute to the problem.
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Joe
3/29/2021 04:18:01 pm
Hi Ah Dh, and welcome to the discussion. I'm curious, why do you feel like this article attacks men? Would you cite the part you found offensive so we can get a better idea where you're coming from on that?
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Ah Dh
3/29/2021 04:33:17 pm
The whole article is criticizing men’s behaviors and attitudes - some of it is legitimate and some isn’t. All that is fine, my problem however is that absolutely nothing in this article or in feminist ideology in general seems to criticize women’s behaviors and attitudes.
Joe
3/29/2021 07:06:02 pm
So you're upset that an article that was written specifically for men, doesn't criticize women's behaviour!? The article was written to provide dating advice to men, so naturally, the article is critical of men's behaviours. It comes off as constructive criticism to me. Did you read this article or just skim the headlines and mistake this article for something else? Asking genuinely because it's an easy thing to do, we've all been there. Anyway, the title is what 'MEN don't understand when THEY complain . . .' If you wanted to read an article critiquing feminist ideology then you ended up in the wrong place is all.
Ah Dh
4/3/2021 11:53:36 am
"If you wanted to read an article critiquing feminist ideology then you ended up in the wrong place is all."
Joe
4/3/2021 01:32:56 pm
I don't know off hand where the right place would be, as it's not something I personally read about much. All I can say is that an article on dating advice for men is probably not it. The article makes no mention of feminism and doesn't even discuss feminism.
Ah Dh
4/3/2021 03:26:42 pm
You said this: "you're making a very broad blanket statement here, claiming that it is true, and providing nothing to justify it, not even an example of it occurring."
Joe
4/3/2021 04:35:57 pm
"Completely contradicting statements but OK." - Those two statements were not only unrelated but also not contradictory. You made an obviously false statement and tried to pass it off as true. I made an assumption, and was honest about it being just an assumption. You tried to present your personal opinion about feminist beliefs as a fact. I gave you my personal opinion and was clear that it was only my opinion. You were probably just exaggerating for effect, but it's hard to know who is doing that and who is just echochambering something they read.
Chris
4/2/2021 06:22:40 pm
Great article, not for its content but for the insight it gives to undesirable men. These are all lessons I actually learned in high school.
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Paul
4/2/2021 06:38:30 pm
Chris,
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Joe
4/2/2021 07:24:18 pm
Women don't go around calling men creepy because they find those men unattractive typically. They call men creepy when men engage in socially unacceptable behaviour, like flirting before establishing mutual interest.
Joe
4/2/2021 07:34:41 pm
Hi Chris,
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Paul
4/2/2021 07:38:14 pm
There most certainly is a double-standard and it works the other way also. Men label women just as unfairly as women do men.
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Joe
4/2/2021 07:58:43 pm
Again what is the double standard? You seem to be suggesting it's okay for attractive men to go around touching women and making unwanted sexual comments but that it's not okay for ugly guys. I'm saying that's not true, it's wrong for both, and therefore not a double standard.
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Paul
4/2/2021 08:12:13 pm
If you don't know or recognize the double-standard between what "handsome" and "ugly" men get away with vis-a-vis women in the workplace and everywhere else then you are an infant, a 40 IQ dullard, being dishonest, or all of the above.
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Joe
4/2/2021 08:43:37 pm
Seems I touched a nerve. Sorry, I'm not trying to offend you, I just disagree with you.
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Sheikh Yerbooty
5/1/2021 05:34:28 pm
>>Women don't go around calling men creepy because they find those men unattractive typically. They call men creepy when men engage in socially unacceptable behaviour, like flirting before establishing mutual interest.<<
Joe
5/1/2021 11:29:20 pm
@Sheikh,
Paul
4/2/2021 09:12:41 pm
I have seen "Attractive" men get away with BLATANT sexual harrassment multiple times throughout my work life. It is always brushed off as "cute" or "sweet." THAT is precisely the double-standard.
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Joe
4/2/2021 11:10:11 pm
Again, are we talking about sexual harassment or creepiness? Different things. I don't know how you define sexual harassment but I seriously doubt you've watched men just go around harassing women and getting away with it, it's a pretty serious thing. What you probably actually saw was a man, flirting with a women who was mutually interested in flirting, and the man didn't get in trouble because there's nothing wrong with mutual flirting. He didn't "get away" with anything. That's why your statement makes no sense, if she thought it is was "cute" then she was BLATANTLY into it, and if she was into it, then it is by definition NOT sexual harassment. What you're not understanding is point one of the article. Another example: If I try staring down a random girl's blouse as she walks buy and I say nice tits, that's creepy whether I'm handsome or ugly. If I do it to my girlfriend or a girl that I have established is into me in that way, then it's not.
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Paul
4/3/2021 01:49:21 pm
If a man says "nice tits" and she enjoys it and digs it it IS inappropriate work behavior and they both should be punished. The "hot" should not be able to get away with what the "ugly" guy cannot. The woman, who is engaged on this double-standard should be disciplined, period. If you cannot see this, sorry for you.
Joe
4/3/2021 02:30:22 pm
I can't see it because your viewpoint rests on a number of assumptions you're making that I don't share to be true.
Chris
4/3/2021 12:06:27 am
I might have looked at a woman from time to time but I don't stare at women. And at work I definitely make sure not to look at women unless I have to (they're talking to me).
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Joe
4/3/2021 11:45:50 am
That's terrible, society can definitely be cruel to people with social anxieties. Humans are very tribal by nature and tend to be prejudiced against those who we feel are different. More of us need to be making a conscious effort to challenge those assumptions.
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Chris
4/9/2021 11:05:00 pm
It's not really a shame. I am what I am and it's as difficult for me to change this at 30 as it would be for anyone else.
Joe
4/10/2021 04:21:21 pm
Change is definitely difficult and really you may never truly change but you may be able to pick up some coping mechanisms that help you blend in a little more. You're right though, you shouldn't have to.
Dan
4/30/2021 09:29:24 pm
I wonder what actionable advice Eva could offer Chris. His challenges and dilemmas are 100% valid. Does she even care?
Chris
5/3/2021 06:18:14 am
@Dan Why would/should Eva care? I only answered because the article rubbed me the wrong way.
Joe
5/3/2021 10:33:10 am
@Chris,
Sheikh Yerbooty
5/1/2021 04:19:24 pm
@Chris,
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Chris
5/2/2021 11:12:09 am
Tried a number of online communities: many of them are extremists, either lonely men placing women on pedestals or, worse, lonely men slinging hateful rhetoric at all women.
Paul
4/3/2021 04:23:19 pm
Anyone who can do the mental gymnastics to actually state that "nice tits" in the work place isn't ALWAYS improper is not a serious person. Since you have shown yourself to be the kind of person who can and will triangulate ANYTHING, this discussion is effectively over. Reason and what passes as common sense eludes you thoroughly. Enjoy your Bizarro World
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Joe
4/3/2021 04:58:53 pm
Paul, you didn't answer any of my questions and never once explained how your supposed double standard works despite me explaining multiple times why it isn't a double standard, including providing detailed examples demonstrating this. All you've done is reiterate your initial position over and over while providing no support for why you believe what you do. Honestly it's a relief that you don't want to discuss it further because you obviously weren't that interested in the debate in the first place.
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Chris
4/9/2021 10:46:24 pm
Having read pretty much every comment in this thread, unless I missed one, there hasn't been a single man who said that making crass backhanded compliments at work as a way to ask a woman out is an acceptable thing to do.
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Joe
4/10/2021 04:37:44 pm
I'm not sure what you're meaning by this comment. We were not trying to say those behaviours were okay. I proposed the example of the cat call because Paul claimed he had witnessed attractive men getting away blatant sexual harassment at work and I was trying to demonstrate how unlikely a claim that was. It was also off topic and unrelated to the article.
Sheikh Yerbooty
5/1/2021 06:38:58 pm
@Paul,
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Joe
5/1/2021 10:06:36 pm
Ha ha, what because I don't feel like echo-chambering the incel/red pill propaganda like you? You need to start thinking for yourself.
Paul
5/2/2021 09:28:26 am
Sheik, I am in complete agreement. That thought has crossed my mind about "Joe" also. He is either Eva, a professional contrairian, or someone who triangulates for a living. He gets off on debating to enth degree to where the point is moot and ceases to be relevant. He (?) reminds me of a professor I had in grad school who argued every point to the point where nothing made sense. Just preposterous
Joe
5/2/2021 10:09:23 am
If my identity matters that much to you guys I'd be happy to jump on a discord server and chat. How about supportcel? You'll be right at home. You could even show me a copy of your diploma from your grad school, because I find it hard to believe you finished a bachelor's degree in anything (let alone a graduate degree) while failing to learn basic rhetoric and critical thinking, or perhaps it's just been so long that you forgot those skills? 7/27/2021 09:15:06 pm
If I wanted to say something, I'd do it under my real name, obviously. But being the same person as Joe is kind of fun -- it's like finding your long lost (and much more patient) twin after all this time!
Joe
7/28/2021 01:02:21 am
Oh, I don't know, maybe a bit more patient. I consider it a form of public service, ha ha.
Sheikh Yerbooty
4/22/2021 11:13:57 am
Here's the ugly truth: We as human beings do indeed have a bias towards attractive people. Attractive people get treated better and have more leniency than unattractive people. It makes NO DIFFERENCE what their sex, or gender, or sexual orientation happens to be. This is a universal rule that is found in all cultures. It is 100% unfair. But at the end of the day, as the late Randy Pausch once said: We can't change the cards we are dealt in life. We can only choose how to play the hand.
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Joe
4/22/2021 12:20:37 pm
I agree that there are many proven benefits to being attractive.
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Chris
4/24/2021 03:58:52 pm
Depends on what about the person is ugly.
Joe
4/29/2021 02:12:47 pm
I'm not sure about the first one, but I've certainly seen plenty of research confirming your second point.
Paul
4/22/2021 02:17:48 pm
Joe, I have seen what I have seen. I am a grown man of 50--not some kid. I have seen the Politics of the Sexual Workplace change; both for the better and for the worse. For you to doubt my veracity is insulting.
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Chris
4/24/2021 03:46:57 pm
Another thing that's changed in the past 20 years, especially in the western world is a shift from healthy and easily understandable standards for limits and boundaries (maintaining professional conduct, not touching other people without their permission, "No means No") to standards that are subjective, murky and hard to navigate.
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Joe
4/29/2021 05:58:43 pm
Chris, I'd be interested to hear what standards you find are murky or hard to navigate?
Chris
5/2/2021 10:09:38 am
@Joe How to deal with women as bosses is an example of murky territory. Some corporations have clear codes of conduct, that outline what is and isn't considered appropriate. But that's not the case in most workplaces.
Joe
5/3/2021 09:57:22 am
Hi again Chris,
Chris
5/7/2021 11:59:48 pm
@Joe my whole company disliked me, what HR could I have gone to? It's a very long story. To summarize, I'm not from the US, used to work for an outsourcing branch in Eastern Europe.
Joe
5/15/2021 12:41:27 pm
@Chris,
Chris
5/19/2021 09:54:33 pm
@Joe No, they didn't hate me, they disliked me. My work for the company was overall a net win. But the way I carry myself and my nonverbal cues likely made most of my coworkers uncomfortable to have me around. At one point I was asked to move my office into a separate room because multiple coworkers were bothered by me being there.
Joe
4/29/2021 02:33:19 pm
Hi again Paul,
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Paul
4/30/2021 02:16:12 pm
Calling someone creepy because they are ugly (both meritless terms because they subjective) happens ALL THE TIME. I have seen it and so has 99% of the population of they are being honest. I have labeled people myself (wrongly). We are human (the cliche` holds) and we make mistakes but we are expected to correct our mistakes.
Joe
4/30/2021 02:55:58 pm
Just because something is "subjective" doesn't mean it is "meritless".
Sheikh Yerbooty
4/25/2021 04:16:08 pm
@Eva:
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Joe
4/29/2021 02:47:30 pm
I think you just missed the point of the comic. The comic isn't trying to prove that being nice will entitle you to sex. The joke is that the guy on the right thinks he's a nice guy and is bitter about not being chosen, even though he isn't nice and really doesn't have anything to offer. He's delusional and further assumes that girls only date asshole guys instead of so called "nice guys" like himself. Also I don't know why you're putting this in all caps because neither the article, nor the comic, made any claim that niceness entitles or attracts.
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Sheikh Yerbooty
4/30/2021 09:20:05 am
@Joe,
Joe
4/30/2021 01:39:07 pm
@Sheikh,
S--
4/30/2021 04:20:06 am
Please don't be FOOLISH people. This is not "advice". She is just very "angry" and "bitter" due to her experiences. Although I can feel for her, I WILL NOT let her (or others like her) spew FALSE information and pretending for it to be advice, when it's in fact actually intended to be a passive-aggressive rant against men. The writer NEEDS to understand that this WILL NOT solve her problem. This will create more problems instead. I just don't know how many women share a similar mindset. It's scary. Are creepy men really to blame?
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Joe
4/30/2021 01:47:05 pm
You realize capitalizing things doesn't make them true right?
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Paul
4/30/2021 03:04:26 pm
Joe, I have articulated the double-standard and it IS self-evident. Every sentient male has seen "good-looking" "desirable" males get away with behavior that is firable, definitely sexual harrassment, or what women call "creepy" with ZERO repercussions while average-looking or "ugly" men are given ZERO benefit of doubt, and/or brought to HR for sexual harrassment. This is JUST FACT. I have zero idea what Pollyanna World you live in where everything is fair and just but it sure as Hell isn't the real world.
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Joe
4/30/2021 04:52:29 pm
Are you the same Paul I was debating with earlier in the month?
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Paul
5/2/2021 10:20:43 am
Joe, attacking whether I have an education or not is ridiculous. Only a dumbass says he has something he doesn't have. Secondly, your comment thread shows what you think. You argue to argue. You flip-flop, obfuscate, and attack. I get it: you enjoy the banter for banter's sake. I was like that at age 16.
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Joe
5/2/2021 11:47:29 am
Oh Paul, I know you're frustrated Paul. I'm trying to help you understand. You still have ignored my basic question. If you would just answer it we would be closer to understanding what premises we actually disagree on and I could help you with your faulty logic.
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Sheikh Yerbooty
5/2/2021 02:00:41 pm
@Joe:
Joe
5/2/2021 02:36:25 pm
Sheikh, I may have misjudged you and your position. Paul, note how Sheikh points out that the woman's consent plays a role in determining what is a sexually inappropriate comment. That's why one man can say something that would be impolite for another. The second man has not gotten the go ahead to engage in this type of intimate discussion. Getting that consent applies to both men. Joe is a delusional moron who has had it too easy. It is not even sexual advance which get an unattractive male in trouble. It is any interaction at all with women who find you unattractive, I have been at the receiving end of this; I asked a person who was working at a new profession temporarily about their old profession, and the principals behind a certain concept (a professional concept) my family was family was dealing with at the time, and she filed a sexual harassment suit against me. If you don't think this happens you are living in a dream world.
Joe
8/17/2021 06:40:57 pm
No need to be hurling childish insults and don't put words in my mouth. I never once said it never happens. I've always maintained that it is highly unlikely. If every interaction with a woman gets people in trouble then most of the world would be in trouble. You are sensationalizing and blowing it out of proportion for no reason. 8/20/2021 11:46:44 am
Steve, as Joe pointed out, there is obviously more to the story.
Paul
5/2/2021 12:03:57 pm
Joe, I stated in my very FIRST missive on here that it is inappropriate to make any sexual remark in the workplace, period. I stand by that. Save the ass-grabbing both verbal and physical, for the bar.
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Joe
5/2/2021 02:50:17 pm
Just wanted to point out that the responses for this comment for this got mistakenly placed in the above thread ^^
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Paul
5/2/2021 03:07:36 pm
Joe,
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Joe
5/2/2021 03:28:41 pm
But what I"m trying to get you to see is that it isn't an us (men), vs them (women) scenario. It applies to both genders. It's not a power shift, it's just a function of common etiquette. No person should be making unwanted comments to any other person. If they don't know how the other person will feel about those comments and they go for it anyway then they need to accept that the other person may find it offensive and thus creepy.
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Chris
5/3/2021 10:05:55 pm
It's understandable that you shouldn't rush to act too friendly, too close or too personal with unknown people.
Joe
5/15/2021 12:02:47 pm
When I said "unwanted comments" I meant "unwanted sexual comments" sorry for lack of clarity, I thought that was clear from the earlier part of the discussion.
Hotguy
5/15/2021 10:48:59 am
Wow … what a horrible perspective! In a time where we aspire to rise above “how you are born defines your character” (race, gender, sexual identity, obesity (which is often not even a factor of birth), “ugliness”, etc.), you are defending how one treats others based on what they look like?!?!? I understand describing discrimination against “ugly” men as a problem, but you somehow make the unenlightened argument that this is “acceptable” (even desirable). A man born with a big nose, for instance, should be identified as a harassment risk; however, a “hot guy” doing exactly the same behavior should be considered a “flirt”?!? I honestly think you’ve painted yourself as a very ugly person (through your character, not your looks). Men (and women) should treat each other respectfully and equally (regardless of circumstances of birth) – an inappropriate advance should be reported as harassment regardless of whether the man is ugly or hot - and “asking someone out” shouldn’t be restricted because the person asking has big ears, is overweight, has a crooked smile, etc.
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Joe
5/15/2021 12:13:11 pm
Wow, another guy who lacks basic reading comprehension. The article clearly states being ugly does not make you creepy, and therefore does not "define your character". It is your actions that do.
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EvaJoe
5/16/2021 09:43:07 am
Apparently, you can't read Joe (Eva). Never said anything about "creepy" ... I said that people should treat each other fairly without regard to looks or genetic history. You are making the argument that bad actions are somehow forgivable if you are hot ("It's only sexual harassment if he's ugly and poor.").
Joe
5/16/2021 11:32:35 am
Did I claim you said anything about "creepy"?, no, again reading comprehension. I said that the ARTICLE states . . .
Ark Menetti
4/12/2022 02:06:30 pm
Dude you're the very last person who should be accusing someone else's lack of reading comprehension, seriously.
Paul
5/15/2021 03:20:55 pm
@Joe,
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Joe
5/16/2021 11:11:26 am
Hard not to sound like a broken record when I have to keep responding to same repeated comments.
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Paul
5/16/2021 01:14:35 pm
@Joe,
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Joe
5/16/2021 01:39:33 pm
You say you don't want want women to have less right to express themselves but then go on big rants about how woman are subjecting men to some imaginary double standard simply because those women maintain their boundaries and don't accept uninvited sexual comments.
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exdeath
5/16/2021 01:33:32 pm
lol my comment got deleted :3
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Paul
5/16/2021 02:13:02 pm
@Joe,
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Joe
5/16/2021 02:29:36 pm
Well, can't say I've seen the word toadying for quite a while, so that's something I guess. Not sure how it applies to me seeing as all I've said is that both men and women should be free to express and enforce their personal boundaries.
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John Edwards
5/19/2021 02:54:05 pm
All the girl above are all probably single moms now. They probably have been cheated on over and over again and will continue to be cheated on again. And if one of them are currently with guy right now. I guarantee he's cheating on her too. I know most of these girl will die a lonely. And it brings me joy knowing this. Remember fellas like the memes says, for every hot girl. There's a man somewhere tired of her shit. Most likely cheating on her. Karma always comes around.
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John Edwards
5/19/2021 03:02:22 pm
Sorry for the grammer in advance. Didn't realized I wasn't able to edit my post after a emotional filled thought hahaha. Not really.
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Doug
5/24/2021 08:24:34 am
I have lots of women friends who enjoy spending time with me, but since I am never certain a woman is romantically attracted to me, I never show interest in any woman no matter how attracted I am to her. Since no woman has ever shown sexual interest in me, it is clear I am fundamentally unattractive from a that perspective and therefore I am ineligible for a sexual relationship. They say men must initiate, but as the article says, guys like me shouldn’t bother because doing so would clearly be unwelcome.
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Joe
5/24/2021 04:30:09 pm
No Doug, the article does not say that. Please people, please, for the love of god, just read the article in its entirety before commenting.
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Doug
6/13/2021 07:55:42 am
I never said anything about being ugly and that wasn’t what I meant. Yes, ugly people date, but those people are capable of attracting someone - I am not. I said I am fundamentally unattractive - they are not the same. I have several women friends who enjoy my company, but nothing romantic has ever even come close to happening with any woman. I cannot attract anyone at that level - that’s what I mean by fundamentally unattractive.
Chris
5/28/2021 01:40:02 am
If your health allows it, cut the calories, lose weight, go to the gym (or workout at home), get fit. This will at least improve the way others treat you.
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Paul
5/24/2021 05:35:29 pm
@ Joe
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Joe
5/24/2021 08:26:49 pm
We all do; each and every one of us sets our personal preferences.
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Chris
4/7/2023 02:47:13 am
Hi Joe,
Chris
5/28/2021 01:28:15 am
The lizard brain does. The APA (American Psychological Association) discovered, in a 2006 study, that "human infants as young as two months old prefer to look at “attractive” faces rather than unattractive ones".
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Chris
8/17/2021 11:34:07 am
I agree Paul, anyone who casually throws about the word ugly in describing someone’s appearance is the one showing true ugliness. How many well adjusted people can honestly say that they have met many people, if any, that they would describe as physically ugly? Meeting people with ugly characters yes but physically ugly no way. There are plenty of people that I am not attracted to but that does not make them ugly.
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Love shot
6/9/2021 01:40:38 am
Omg the comments
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Truth
7/1/2021 01:11:59 pm
Just too many low life very rotten and evil women everywhere these days unfortunately, especially the ones that will even Curse at many of us single men looking for love for no reason. Just trying to say good morning or hello to a woman that many of us men would really like to meet has really become very extremely dangerous for most of us single men now, and i know other friends that had it happened to them as well. Very mentally disturbed women everywhere nowadays that are causing the problem. How in the world can many of us men find love, now that most women are very pathetic these days? Feminism is much worse than cancer today that is caused by women.
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Kyrious
7/12/2021 01:34:36 am
@Truth
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Guest
7/19/2021 11:09:08 am
Kyrious, unfortunately he is very right though. Most women nowadays are very rude to many of us single men for no reason at all. What is up with that?
Joe
7/20/2021 12:41:07 am
No he's definitely wrong. I don't know what planet you're from but on my time here on Earth I've only ever had one woman be rude to me when I approached and that was in like 5th grade, and I ain't special I just have social skills and have respect for others.
Paul
7/3/2021 10:20:08 pm
Greg,
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Skib
7/3/2021 10:24:09 pm
Your answer was very emotional and didn’t actually address any of the points he made 🤷♂️. I’m on the fence about this, but I’d like to see a logical rebuttal to what he said rather than cliché finger pointing.
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Paul
7/3/2021 10:43:18 pm
Skib,
Incel
7/11/2021 07:53:40 pm
I read the article. I got the message. I'm not wanted.
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7/13/2021 08:36:01 am
If only it were as clear to you why no one wants you as it is to me.
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Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 08:27:08 pm
This is the advice you give to someone claiming to be planning to commit suicide? Really? Now even if you believe incel to not be serious, this is still not an appropriate way to respond to someone making such a statement. You claim to have a psychology degree, but I really hope what you posted here isn't how you treat any patients you might have. In fact if you are really this heartless I hope you don't practice and see patients at all. I know from experience that those in the field are taught better than what you display here. In fact such a comment, if relayed to whomever employs you in the psychology field, and the medical board you answer to, would not be looked on too favorably. You should know better Eva. Your statement here shows you to be quite vile and immature. 7/26/2021 08:52:44 am
Yes, "Elizabeth G." It is the advice I would give. It's good advice. He should take it. Joining in the pity party isn't going to help this man, but giving him good, honest advice might.
Chris
8/17/2021 02:43:44 am
Eva, I am utterly shocked at your advice to incel. I have never read such childish, ignorant drivel in all my life. Your comments and use of language are appalling. You are not even exhibiting a basic grasp of social intelligence here. I also wonder if you have ever been in actual relationship with anyone?!! 8/20/2021 11:57:26 am
Hi again, Chris,
Guest
9/1/2021 12:47:16 pm
Most women unfortunately are real gold diggers nowadays, and they like sleeping around with much older men with the very big bank accounts. It is all about money for these very pathetic women, that are very much the real losers to begin with.
Ark Menetti
2/4/2022 03:42:26 am
Joe
2/4/2022 01:03:26 pm
"True but that only applies if you aren't ugly, rendering your advice as obsolete."
Charlotte
3/31/2022 01:55:27 pm
Eva, it is clear to me that you have a stunning lack of empathy and compassion. Whether "Incel" is trolling or not, that is not the way to speak to anybody who is contemplating suicide, and you know it. Maybe if you come down from your feminist ivory tower, you would begin to see that treating men who don't share your out-of-touch, biased views like cold garbage isn't the best way to spread your message. 4/3/2022 02:41:18 pm
Charlotte, honey. I wrote this to help incels and dudes with bad social skills. I can't help the self-righteous pricks or the manchildren who are unable to take accountability for their own shortcomings. But a lot of men have been tremendously helped by this and similar posts.
Paul
7/14/2021 08:37:38 am
I am certainly not clingy, not only because I don't have anyone ti 'cling' to, but because I have had extremely limited social interaction throughout my life. I've literally never been invited to a party or other social event. Even when I was a child, I was the only kid in the class who never got invited to birthday parties. That was upsetting but it was what it was. I wasn't bullied or bothered by anyone - others simply didn't (and mostly still don't) interact with me. I'm not blaming anyone - but I honestly have no idea why I am invisible to others, and nobody else I've asked (including therapists) has given me a reason either. I have many hobbies (including climbing waterfalls, hiking and cooking), am well travelled (86 countries) and speak seven languages. The few friends I have (including some women) tell me I am one of the most interesting people they know. I certainly have never asked a woman out because it is crystal clear that the answer would be an immediate unqualified no. Any thoughts?
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Joe
7/20/2021 12:56:33 am
I have some thoughts:
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DJ
7/23/2021 11:51:52 am
Joe, he is eight you idiot. Most women are very nasty and very troubled these days unfortunately. Especially the ones that have no manners and personality at all when it comes to many of us men. What is that all about anyway?
exdeath
7/17/2021 10:27:40 am
It's become a bit of a ritual for me to come back at this article to laugh at it, which i guess puts me at Eva's level in some way but idrc, I'm happy with my life. The easy thing to do here would be to leave some kind of troll comment, but I'm one of the few people on the internet who chooses to be genuine, so I'm gonna give my honest two censts.
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Joe
7/17/2021 02:35:23 pm
Lol, it's hilarious when people think they've proven someone wrong but in reality have only helped prove them right.
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7/19/2021 08:16:24 am
Yes! I am sincerely very happy he's found someone. That's why I wrote this article! 7/19/2021 08:15:28 am
Thanks for coming back with follow-up. I'm really happy to hear the article helped you -- that was my goal in writing it, after all. It wasn't too make you like me -- it was to help people who are struggling wake up and self-improve. Loneliness is a shitty problem -- perhaps the problem I would solve if I could solve one problem with the snap of my fingers -- so of course I'm thrilled that there are two fewer lonely people out there.
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Rob
7/23/2021 06:38:26 pm
Well said exdeath. I got linked to this train wreck of an article, and equally so comment section, from another web site discussion. What always surprises me about such "advice" articles posted by self proclaimed female experts like the author here, is how obvious their bitterness towards men in general are. Yet they always attempt to hide it by starting out their advice by trying to sound as if they sympathize with the targets of their advice. So their articles always start off being in an almost conciliatory tone. As you read further though, that tone very quickly changes from one that appeared to be seeking common ground and understanding with their targets at the beginning, to one of passive aggressiveness, condescension, and judgment.
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7/24/2021 10:57:37 am
LOL, "Rob." I love men. I play sports almost exclusively with men. I socialize and travel almost exclusively with men. Men are wonderful, romantic, and exciting.
Rob
7/23/2021 06:55:08 pm
Also, one more point exdeath. If one needed anymore proof of the author's clear bitterness towards men, all they need to do is scroll up a few posts to the post by the person calling themselves "incel" and read his post and the authors reply to him. The author's reply to incel really illustrates the kind of uncompassionate and bitter person she is.
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Tony
7/24/2021 12:28:06 am
The advice in this article is hysterical and it's coming from a women who's clearly been used by too many players in her past. So now she's got a chip on her shoulder and trying to lash out at men. So guys just ignore her. Never take dating advice from a played out ho.
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7/24/2021 10:55:04 am
LOL. Sure. Tell yourself what you need to if it makes you feel better. Unfortunately, I've never been "used by a player." That's the kind of shit that happens to girls with no self-esteem. I've never been treated like anything but a princess. :)
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Tony
7/24/2021 11:51:37 am
Careful sweetheart you're overstating your points. It's showing your defensive emotional scars. 7/24/2021 01:35:03 pm
No, Tony. I smiled and felt warm inside, because love is so amazing and I hope you get to experience it someday.
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Tony
7/24/2021 02:29:46 pm
"I don't pout"...... Says every woman I've ever known while they are pouting. I never get tired of that non denial-denial. It's truly adorable. 7/24/2021 02:43:04 pm
LOL -- says some dude who's clearly never talked to a woman before!
Alex
4/2/2022 08:38:59 pm
Best of luck to you too, little girl.
Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 06:43:50 pm
I don't even know where to begin with my comment on Eva's advice here. I can see why I was sent a link to it. As the 67 year old mother and grandmother I am, I can see so much wrong with Evas views on this subject and it's both heart breaking and aggravating. First off her article here is full of too many absolutes and what she seems to believe are "rules" to flirting complementing etc.
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Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 06:46:08 pm
It looks like I went past the character limit just a bit with my post. Sorry about that. Here is the rest of my post:
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Joe
7/27/2021 01:30:17 pm
It's always such sweet irony when people attempt to hold others to standards that they don't hold themselves accountable to, ha ha.
Mike
7/24/2021 08:00:39 pm
Brilliant posts Elizabeth. I have to admit it is very nice to see an older feminist like you really call out the bs of a younger one like Eva. I said that in my other reply to you on this article's companion piece, but I think it bears repeating. Judging from Eva's replies here though I am sure that not only will she not see or understand the truth in your words, but that she will try to attack and dispaage you for posting them. Be aware though, I have recently found out that posts seem to mysteriously get deleted here. So if Eva doesn't come back with some insulting reply, your post will most likely conveniently disappear too. This is a standard issue rant blog though, so what do we expect right? LOL
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Elizabeth G.
7/24/2021 08:15:32 pm
I'm an old women, what could Eva possibly say or do to me as an insult that I havent already heard women and men say to me over the years whenever I have disagreed with them? She's half my age, if that, there's not much she can say or do to me that will make any difference. So whether she replies to me or not or deletes my post or not makes no difference. I said my piece. She is free to disagree, agree or neither if that's her choice. My hope is that some of the men who took her words personally will now see them as not being the general concensus of women in general, and disregard them as the unfortunate opinions of a small number of sad women that they really are.
Rob
7/25/2021 09:32:18 pm
Thank you Elizabeth, for what has to be the most detailed and brilliant rebuttal to Eva's article I have seen here to date.
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Elizabeth G
7/25/2021 09:45:30 pm
Thanks for the kind words Rob. I wasn't going to post another reply here after I read the nasty post Eva posted in reply to the suicidal man who posted up above, but since you respectfully asked me a question pertinent to this discussion I figured I would offer you the same respect and answer you. 7/26/2021 08:58:29 am
LOLOLOL. Since you've both written like 3 novels worth of comments on my blog, I haven't really had time to catch up... but based on quickly skimming this... Did one (both?) of you seriously complain that I responded to comments that were posted on MY blog?
Joe
7/27/2021 01:43:04 pm
It was detailed for sure, but that's about it. It isn't even a refutation of the above article. The article is about what behaviours are more likely to result in being labelled creepy. The article made 4 main points. This, so called, "brilliant rebuttal" didn't address even a single main point. Instead Elizabeth focused her comment on how there is variation in what people find attractive, which I agree is true, but the article is specifically about behaviour not "what is attractive" and so her comments are off topic and certainly not a rebuttal of the original material.
Rob
7/26/2021 10:11:13 am
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions Elizabeth. Your words here will serve as a reminder that genuine advice comes from a place of humility and compassion first, combined with the wisdom gained from real life experiences. Sadly though Eva's posts here are a harsh reminder that most advice given these days comes from hateful people who have no compassion for anyone beyond themselves, and far too much ego to have any humility. They also have no real wisdom and no practical life experiences beyond the bubble they exist in. So thank you again Elizabeth for having the fortitude to speak truth in the face of so much hate. |