Sometimes, Vicious is the Kindest Thing You Can Be

1/24/2021

My spirit animal. Image: @TheHappyTalent

Humans evolved to be extremely sensitive to loneliness — we couldn't survive or successfully reproduce while alone, so there was a strong evolutionary pressure to be lonely.

That is why loneliness causes tremendous physical and emotional agony — and why I've spent time writing posts to help the lonely find companionship.

It's also why my replies to the incels who criticize posts like What Men Don't Understand When They Complain, "It's Only Creepy If The Guy Isn't Hot" and "Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity are curt, direct, and arguably "vicious."

Because the thing about these guys is, people find them creepy and unpleasant to be around, and most of them have no idea why. They have no idea what they're doing wrong, because most people are too "polite" and "kind," perhaps giving out their number but ignoring the text, or perhaps not calling out annoying behavior.

And therefore, the guys never figure out why no one likes them and keep doing the thing that makes them so off-putting.

In the past, I've encouraged more women to be "rude" for their own safety and happiness. As I wrote in The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt Gif That All Women Need to See Immediately:

I wish more women knew that it's okay to tell someone to fuck off. To get out of my house. To stop following me. To back off. If someone isn't listening to you, it is okay to yell. It is okay to call for help. It is okay to be rude. I mean, let's be real, here.

If you've said, "No," and the guy answered with, "Oh, come on!" -- or by simply ignoring you, or by pretending to comply for a moment before trying again, or in any way other disrespecting your wishes -- which of you is actually being rude?

If you've told someone you don't want him to drive you home or walk to your door or come inside, and he tries to anyway... how are you possibly the one who is rude? In what universe?

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However, being "rude" isn't just a good way to make sure some jerk doesn't impose on your night — it's also a kindness. Most people aren't jerks on purpose. They just don't realize they're being jerks.

By being "rude," you help them identify the problem — and then they can start working on it.

FOR EXAMPLE.

Vesta and I have been spending a lot of time at the beach.

Image: @TheHappyTalent

The other day, we crossed paths with a guy, and there was just sort of an instant connection. Before we even started talking, we'd already "clicked."

Through an outdoor, social distance conversation, we discovered our shared love of scuba diving, travel, and road trips — and we even ended up going diving together!

Image: How To Swim With Manatees in Florida for Only $1

HOWEVER.

By the end of our first dive, I was already looking for an excuse to ditch him.

But instead, I gave him some honest feedback. Here's how it went down:

ME: I spent two days in Homosassa — the first, I went swimming out of Hunter Springs by myself. It was only $1 to park, and I saw three manatees. The second day --

HIM: I've been diving in Crystal Springs since I was five! You really should have gone to Three Sisters! That's where I go, and I always see THOUSANDS of manatees!

ME: Yeah? Well, I've been diving there since before I was born! And I actually saw MILLIONS of manatees.

HIM: Huh?

ME: Look. You're kind of an obnoxious one-upper. It is rare that I ever get to finish a sentence around you, because you almost always interrupt me with the same story, BUT BETTER!

HIM: I'm not a one-upper!

ME: Yes, you are. Literally everything I've ever said — your truck is better than my truck! Your dive gear is better than my dive gear! Your business is better than my business! Your air consumption is better than my air consumption! You're SUUUUUCH a faster swimmer than I am! You saw a bigger alligator than I did! (Though honestly, half the time, I don't even believe you — did you really think I'd believe that you did a three-hour dive in forty-degree water with no wetsuit? I'm not stupid!)

HIM: But I'm not trying to one-up you!

ME: It doesn't matter if you're TRYING or not. It's what you're doing! I don't know if you do it because you're insecure or if you're trying to impress me or if you just don't give a shit about what I say, but it is obnoxious, and it kind of makes me hate you. If you want to have good charisma, you shouldn't interrupt people constantly. Instead, you should at least pretend you think they're interesting.

I'm not telling you this to be mean. It would be easier to just blow you off. I'm only telling you because I'm trying to help.

Could I have been "nicer" with my feedback? Maybe.

But to me, a euphemism is a lie. If I'd been "subtle," he probably wouldn't have picked up on the hint — if subtlety worked, he would have identified and corrected the noxious behavior by now.

Instead, I told him exactly what he's doing wrong — even though it would have been "easier" to just ditch him or ignore the behavior, I made the effort to be vicious, because it was a situation in which viciousness seemed like the greatest kindness.

After all, there's a reason this man was traveling alone.

I love my friends. That's why I'm mean to them.

"Hey, man. There's this really cool Exeter party on Friday. I'd totally invite you... but, honestly, you're kind of a clinger, and I don't want to have to babysit you."

This is a real conversation I had with a dear friend recently. She's super cool, and she's got a lot going for her -- she's gorgeous, she's smart, and she's way more open-minded than I am.

But I hate inviting her to stuff, because she doesn't mingle. She doesn't make small talk with other people at the event. She just stands next to me, goes where I go... and when I start talking to other people, she either stands there awkwardly and says nothing, or goes to sit in some dark corner all by herself.

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People in the comments called me a bitch. But I think telling her why I don't want to invite her to parties is 100000000% kinder than just never inviting her to hang out with me again.

It is rare for people to get the kind of feedback that they need to grow, because everyone is so worried about being "nice." Even a lot of professional, paid psychologists don't call their patients out on their bullshit, so they keep doing the same things wrong and their relationships never improve.

Yet as someone who has a master's in psychology, I know that a huge amount of unhappiness stems directly from interpersonal dysfunction.

And this is exactly why I think viciousness is the new kindness.

19 Comments

Anderson

2/9/2021 01:40:48 pm

Wow, that's great advice. The next time I want to blow off an unattractive woman, I'm going to follow your example and abruptly, and heartlessly, tell her that she is grotesquely overweight. That having sex with her would be like humping a sea mammal, and that if she could stop being so damn annoying by losing weight, then maybe she would be worthy of being treated like a human being with cordialness.

In all seriousness, the man you went diving with (and who dodged a major bullet) was not "one-upping" you. He was trying his damn best to be an interesting conversation partner and show you that he has interests and things going on in his life that women demand of men. If you honestly are so petty and unforgiving of benign quirks like this guy's, then why should anyone be forgiving of any of your own quirks? You have quite a few of them, Eva, of this I am certain.

My aunt had a friend like you. She would always point out people's flaws and shortcomings as if she were providing a valuable service to them. Eventually, all of her friends, including my aunt, got tired of her catty bullshit and ditched her. She just had this stink of conceit about her that was god awful to be around. You give me that exact same repulsion, Eva. Leave it to you to find a flaw in someone to exploit, and use it as an excuse to reject them.

You're going to be one of those people who cycles through relationships and places the blame on others for your own snarky, repulsive personality. On the bright side, your repulsive attitude will hopefully prevent you from reproducing.

Also, do not visit Tampa. I don't want you anywhere near me.

Eva Glasrud link

2/9/2021 06:36:19 pm

Anderson, you sound pretty upset -- to be frank, unreasonably so. The purpose of posts like these is to help people like you recognize what they're doing wrong, so they can do better. Hopefully, once you calm down, you'll have a moment to self-reflect, and then self-improve.

Best of luck.

Jan Gregory

4/20/2021 10:39:22 am

Hi Eva, nicely done... this reply to Anderson.

All the while ignoring the slings, arrows and the mud, knowing as you undoubtedly do, all are powerless against you. If you don't mind my saying...You are indeed a master, Eva, but much more than just experience and training in psychology.

May I say, in my opinion, your adroit reply indicates you are a master of your own mind and you have no qualms speaking what's on your mind when appropriate. You perhaps understand the true nature of anger and rage, and just how useless these emotions can be dealing with others.

Your reply indicates a deep understanding of the true nature of living... none of us can actually have much control over external events, or the actions of others. Some influence perhaps, and in my view, perhaps this was your goal for this blog post, offering some sound knowledge and influence readers thinking a bit.

We all, each and every one of us, can control our own minds, thereby opening a whole range of possibilities for leading a full and adventurous new life unafraid of the path we take, and occasionally offer and receive some helpful nuggets for better living while enjoying our fellow travelers along the way..

Eva, you seem to possess the mindset of an experienced traveler and explorer. Fueled by an intense curiosity , I’ve never stopped exploring and traveling over many decades. In my experience, everyone is primed by their very natures to be friendly, agreeable helpful, civil, and polite. Not every person you meet, but it’s rare in my experience to find the opposite.

Any successful society embraces these qualities, and these qualities are the prime survival traits. Humanity evolved to survive together... we are all on the same team headed for the same ending...Any one who is not displaying these prime qualities, I consider a fellow student in training... we are not what we think we are, and rarely see ourselves the way others do.

Arrived at this page by a backdoor deep search, so know little about you, Eva…however, a return trip to TheHappyTalent is already in my tickler file.

Cheers,
Jan Gregory

P.S. Are you a follower of Stoicism perhaps?

Wow

8/31/2021 05:39:40 pm

Look, this guy is really butthurt

changingthenarrative

4/26/2022 11:10:08 am

Lol right? Seriously a textbook butthurt reply by ol' Danderson here.

4/26/2022 11:07:50 am

Yo Dan!

Now I know why she called you "Dan" in quote marks 😂😂😂😂

What a tool you are.

Dan

5/31/2022 09:56:00 am

My full name is Dan Anderson. What's your name? Or should I just call you Simpy McFuckboy?

What a kiss-ass chode you are 😂🤣🤣😉

5/31/2022 04:42:33 pm

What's the matter, Danderson? No appropriated slang to throw around this time? I notice your little fraud self changed your way of spelling fuckboy and thought nobody would notice 😂

You're the epitome of a fuckboy, if you didn't know. You're the type of dude who talks all big and talks all slick but isn't about any of it, has no game, and especially has no clout in the street. You aren't tryna do shit, and that's why you're a fuckboy. A joke. A clown.

You're hardcore in your feelings over a random ass woman online and want to call anybody else a fuckboy or a chode or disrespect their manhood? Yo don't make me laugh dude.

Just admit you're an in your feelings little beta and be done with it. Stop embarrassing yourself trying to come at me. It's just sad.

6/2/2022 08:21:27 am

Since you won't tell me your given name, I'm just going to use whichever spelling variation of fuckboy I feel like to address you. It's not changingthenarrative, because the narrative is that you're another thirsty, ingratiating fuccboi who doesn't have the testicular fortitude to call someone out for her obnoxious behavior, and trying to play peacekeeper for some random woman who would throw you under the bus and not think twice. You think she gives a damn about some random internet fuckboy like you who defends her for saying the most cringey, narcissitic things on a public blog? The most she does for your simp ass is pat you on the head like a servile dog who performed a trick for her.

"Manhood?" LOL, you are such a fuckboy posing as some wannabe who "knew crips." What were you, their do-boy? I can tell from your diction, that you have the persona of that corny tag-along black guy from "Dazed and Confused." What were you doing associating with gangbangers, anyway? Did you not have a father around to tell you not to associate with such people who mistreat women? And you have the brass to call me a misogynist.

What's sad is that Eva doesn't have a father figure to tell her that saying things like, "Anyone who isn't blind can clearly see that I'm attractive," is on par with "Anyone who isn't deaf can clearly hear that I'm a great song writer." She is oblivious to the fact that dismissing the agency of others is narcissistic and repulsive. That attitude comes out in her interactions with others and people are not going to commit to her long-term. She is also someone who thinks that she is never wrong, even when she uses hyperbolic statements to compel someone, abruptly, to see things her way.

And what is with this beta/alpha/omega/sigma bullshit you're tossing around? George Carlin brilliantly lampooned cro-magnons like you, and you're acting like a wannabe tough guy trying to start beef with some random guy on the internet. It's a public blog, you dumbass. When you post your thoughts and invite people to respond to your opinions, you willingly accept the positive and negative. I'm not the only person to call her out on her bs (this includes people in academia), you gimp. She could block such people from responding, but she obviously enjoys the attention. I think you enjoy the attention, too.

6/7/2022 10:43:58 am

Lol still being a tryhard little herb and copping a tough guy alpha attitude then pretending you're above it like the true beta you are eh, Danderson?

You just wrote out a novel because I bitched you out after you weakly tried to puff your chest out at me.

You're not hood. You're not hard. You're sure as shit in no way affiliated with the Crips so stop co-opting their spelling, fuckboy.

You want to see a simp? Look in the mirror. You're obsessed with a random woman on the internet and somehow think that's being a man or that anybody who calls you out on it is a "simp". Kid you'd have been mocked relentlessly for being this obsessive and going on and on on and on in any kind of environment full of real men like me. You're just a sad, bitter little man who's angry that your nice guy act doesn't get you laid any more than your asshole act does.

You aren't worth another ounce of my attention or time so keep embarrassing yourself with these replies while I just sit back and laugh at you.

6/7/2022 11:31:06 am

I do have to say though how much your being so oblivious to how badly I've roasted you in these comments amuses me, Danderson.

I've been calling you various things that all mean basically the same thing as fuckboy in these past few comments, and you've been completely oblivious to it.

I've deliberately used other slang from the culture you copy and exposed you as a fraud because you clearly didn't understand it.

I exposed you as somebody who's all talk after you tried to flex on me and disrespect my manhood.

I repeatedly said you're in your feelings when you tried to make me out to be a simp, and you haven't responded appropriately to it.

By the way... if you hate the Crips so much then why you tryna spell like them, tryhard?

Now let me tell you some of the things you've exposed about yourself with the ridiculous things you've tried to say about me.

Your assuming I must be black because I have been around certain types in my life and come from a less than ideal background exposes you as sheltered. There are millions of white people who grow up around those types, go to school with thugs, and even have thugs in their neighborhood.

Your calling me a chode tells me you're most likely from a suburban or rural background since most of us from urban backgrounds don't use words like that.

Your co-opting not just fuckboy and simp but the Crip style spelling tells me you most likely lean liberal-left, as people on the right can't stand hoodspeak.

Your not knowing other slang from the same culture tells me you most likely only learned these terms through the internet. A word of advice. Don't co-opt words from black culture -most likely from black women- if you don't even understand that they're using those terms in a different way specifically for an audience that knows what they actually mean. That's how you all don't know what not just fuckboy but shook and clap back mean yet insufferably use them all the time.

Your trying to make yourself out to be above the tough guy stuff that you initiated in the first place after you get bitched out tells me you're an all talk beta who's probably been sheltered from consequences for his entire life and never really been in a fight.

That's just for starters.

Take care, you walking punchline.

6/8/2022 10:23:18 am

Eva, is that you posing as some wannabe 8-mile fuckboy? I can't imagine any guy who actually has a pair acting like such a whipped pusscake like changingthenarrative to that degree. What "real man" goes out of his way to defend a narcissist who tries to rationalize that "Anyone who isn't blind can clearly see that I'm attractive" is not a conceited, nauseating, dehumanizing and toxic statement?

If you are who you say you are, and you have so much going for you as a "real man," why do you make time to fence with a "beta" over trivial shit like urban-dictionary vocabulary and defending a woman who does not give a shit about you or your thinly-veiled attempt to earn brownie points?

You both act like you need epidurals when anyone who you perceive to be inferior to you calls out such behavior to the point that you're tossing around cringey gaffes like, "I'm a real man," and "beta," at people who are exercising their right to call people out for repulsive attitudes.

I don't care what your definition of fuckboy is, or how it is spelled. My definition of a fuckboy is someone who does not have the balls to call out people for confusing confidence with arrogance, when said persons use their appearance to compensate, just like you are compensating your lack of "manliness" by trying to win some argument online with a "beta" for the approval of a narcissistic woman. I doubt that you would simp for her if she weighed over 300lbs. But because you are such a simp fuckboy that you agree that she is an "Amazonian Goddess," you are willing to concede your own sense of gumption and go out of your way to defend her narcissism. Any guy who does that is not a real man. He is a fuckboy.

Who raised you up to defend such behavior and condone it, fukboyeeee? Your mother must have been as much of an asshole as Eva to give you the disposition to achieve "alpha" status by ginning yourself up like that. Why don't you ask her if she would say something like that about herself? In fact, I'm curious what kind of woman she is. What a failure to raise such an ingratiating fuckboy.

2/15/2021 12:00:40 pm

"After all, there's a reason this man was traveling alone."

And were you not alone on this diving trip, also? There is nothing you are doing "wrong" that makes you just as unattractive and single as the men you criticize?

Perhaps it is you who would benefit from "self-reflection," instead of passing the buck and blaming men for behaviors that are otherwise harmless and not deal breakers to women who are not petty.

Physician, heal thyself.

2/15/2021 12:31:57 pm

His behavior was obviously undermining his efforts to make and keep friends, so I told him what, specifically, he should work on. I am traveling alone because I was strategic and smart and designed a life that allows 3-4 months of travel per year (though with everything being online now, it's more like 12 months per year). Most people only get 1-3 weeks. I don't get lonely while I travel because it's extremely easy for me to meet new people and I have close friends, partners, and family to talk to every day. This guy obviously wanted to find someone to spend time with, and I (hopefully) helped him do it.

It is the kindest thing I could have possibly done.

Anonymous

3/20/2021 05:08:19 pm

You will probably gaslight me for saying this, and dismiss how I feel and throw it in my face as a "helpless child," but this post did not have the helpful effect that you intended. If anything, it has given me even more anxiety about dating and socializing. This man was just trying to match the energy of the conversation and was doing what he could to appear interesting; he wasn't trying to slight you or make you feel inferior. And all you could do was damage his self-esteem by saying you "kind of hate" him? If that is the kindest thing you could have done, then I would hate to see you being cruel.

Yes, Eva, I know that he should not have interrupted you while you were talking, and that he should have spent more time listening to you and less time talking about himself. However, that does not justify you biting his face off like that. The dignified, "charismatic" thing to do would have been to make him aware of his errors in a less abrasive way. It does not matter if you detest euphemisms, that is what mature, considerate adults do: treat others with the same respect and civility as you would want for yourself.

I truly hope the guy was not too hurt by your words, and is able to talk to nicer women without agonizing over everything he says for fear of such a harsh reprimand.

3/20/2021 08:01:19 pm

First, "gaslighting" means a specific thing. "Disagrees with me" isn't what it means. Yes, I disagree with you. No, that is not gaslighting.

Second, this guy needed all the help he could get. He literally argued with me when I told him my truck was gas, not diesel -- as though I'd somehow driven it across the country on the wrong fuel. I mean -- come on! You can tell by looking at the tailpipe that it's gas! The guy seriously needed the feedback.

I didn't bite his face off. I did him a huge favor. Once again, if subtly worked on him, he wouldn't have ended up acting the way he did. (See also: http://www.thehappytalent.com/blog/if-a-girl-you-were-hitting-on-was-rude-to-you-its-probably-your-fault.)

I truly hope the guy remembers what I said, reflects, and does better next time. There is hope for him yet!

Michael

4/30/2021 06:43:15 pm

I needed to come to the beach pier to clear my head. The wind blowing over me is something of a nice respite from the reoccurring themes I have yet to desensitize myself from:

Rejection
Condescension
Isolation
Withdrawal
Anxiety

It has burdened me for 37 years. The child psychologists my mother took me to could not make me "normal." I will never forget that image of my mother crying her eyes out at the kitchen table, as she realized that I would not be able to enjoy what most of my peers would enjoy.

I'm a square peg. I'm different. I'm weird. I'm not like you and the people who meet your approval. I'm just me. I don't know how to reprogram my brain/personality to fit the image of "normal."

Normal people have friends. Normal people have long, easy conversations with others. Normal people date, have sex, and find love. I don't. I'm not normal. I am what I am.

Maybe there are other weird people that have the same personality as mine to spend time with. Maybe there is a weird woman out there who will accept me for who I am, and vice-versa. Maybe someday I will stop letting people like you bother me for not being normal.

I've made my decision. I'm going to do my best to find a therapist that I can afford to reprogram my personality and escape this shroud of stigma and derision that you have covered me with.

I may succeed, I may fail. But I have to try.

I do not like you. You remind me of the callous, catty girls that mocked me in school. Your approach to helping people is the equivalent of calling an overweight person a "fat fuck" to shame them into exercising. I hope that if I ever do find a girlfriend
she will have more empathy and patience than you. Nevertheless, you accomplished what you wanted. I'm going to give it my best shot.

5/26/2023 09:32:28 am

That's funny. I've never mocked or bullied someone in my life. Providing data, evidence, perspective, and strategies to people who come here looking for help DOES help. It doesn't help people who get defensive and play the victim card, though.

I don't know you well enough to say much beyond that, but to me, it sounds like your most addressable issue is defensiveness.

Juan Manuel

3/19/2024 01:34:19 pm

It has helped me for sure, these lads definitely don't get what you are saying.

I have been in their shoes, and I would select going to hell rather than getting in those shoes again, so I really hope they get better and happier, life is not easy for anyone, but you have to be willing to take the shit that it throws at you to overcome it, and it gets really hard to do that if you don't know what is shit and what is gold in the first place.

Sometimes, Vicious is the Kindest Thing You Can Be

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