We've all heard dudes lament that flirting/hitting on girls/commenting on women's bodies is "only creepy when the guy is unattractive."
Some women boldly declare the same. "If a sexy man compliments me, that's fine. If a ugly man looks at me too long, that's harassment." (See also: Here's How One Pretty Woman Deals With The "Constant Stares and Compliments" From Men.) "It's only sexual harassment if he's ugly and poor." (See also: Yes, Money DOES Make You Happier - If You Use a Log Scale.) "If he's cute, it's called flirting, but if he's ugly that's sexual harassment and you'd better go to HR." (See also: Why You Should Flirt With Basically Everyone.) Sure, reality is harsh... but so is self-reflection. So let's "unpack" this a little to figure out what's really going on, and how you can do better in your romantic pursuits. 1. In order to be fun and not creepy, FLIRTING HAS TO BE MUTUAL. Flirting is fun. But only when advances are thrilling, meaningful, or desired. Flirting, like kissing, sex, and... I dunno, tandem skydiving?... is only fun when both people are into it. (See also: Dear Confused Dudes: If You Had To Grab Her By The Head and Restrain Her, It Wasn't a "Kiss.") Unwanted sexual advances are gross. I'm not going to sugarcoat things, because that's a waste of everyone's time: if you're attractive, your advances are more likely to be mutual. If you're unattractive, your advances are less likely to be mutual. Especially in a situation where you're chatting up someone new, who knows little about you other than what you look like. Facts are facts. The only way around this is to pretend evolution and biology and psychology don't exist. Yes, all else equal, women like men who are tall and handsome. BUT. What's going to be a lot more important than that in the long-run is his ability to provide. That he has mature and masculine qualities. That he is a loving, considerate, compassionate individual. And that he's smart. According to Plomin and Deary's expert review, Genetics and intelligence differences: five special findings (2014), "Assortative mating is greater for intelligence (spouse correlations ~0.40) than for other behavioural traits such as personality and psychopathology (~0.10) or physical traits such as height and weight (~0.20)." In other words, Hollywood is wrong. Opposites do not attract. We like people who are like us -- with respect to anything from political opinions to religious background to physical attractiveness to intelligence. But we especially like people who are like us with respect to intelligence. But I don't know how intellectually sexy you are if we've only just met! And I'm going to assume you're intellectually repulsive if you think the way to win my heart is to give some cheap compliment about my body or appearance. So if you're someone of below-average attractiveness, maybe instead of hitting on women you barely know... get to know them first. Learn charisma and be respectful. Remember: it's not that girls don't like guys who are "desperate" or "too available." It's that you ignored her clearly-stated preferences and boundaries. Once they feel comfortable around you, once they start to appreciate your intelligence, sense of humor, and other positive qualities, THEN it may be time to start flirting. 2. I really shouldn't have to say this, but you're not entitled to a woman's attention. Guess what? It's okay for women to be attracted to other women. It's okay for men to be attracted to skinny women. It's okay for men to only want to date women with vaginas, and it's okay for women to be attracted to nerds or jocks, or anyone else they want. We are all allowed to be attracted to whomever we're attracted to, and you are not entitled to a woman's time, affection, or attraction. That's why so many women cringe when they hear phrases like "friend zoned" and "nice guy." Remember: no woman ever dates a man because he's "nice." Nice is the most basic criterion. If you're not nice and other things... then you're just nice. And that's, like, super boring. If you feel like you don't have much to offer, other than being nice, check out some of the advice I shared in You'd Get Invited to More Parties if You'd Mingle, Instead of Cling. And, again, remember: you are not entitled to a woman's time, affection, or attraction. 3. A decent rule of thumb is, "If you're not SURE the answer is yes, don't ask her out." In July 2017, Ashton Kutcher, an American actor and investor, was berated on Twitter for trying to start a conversation about rules for dating in the workplace. Which is absolutely ridiculous. It's a perfectly valid question. If we don't discuss "clear red lines" and rules for dating at work, we spread ignorance and fear. Male and female employees may become afraid to interact with one another. Women may miss out on opportunities to discuss promotions and raises, because their bosses are afraid to have a closed-door meeting with them. Bosses may fear asking employees out for a drink to discuss a project, for fear this could be interpreted wrong. And, of course, women (and men) could get hurt, by both malicious and well-meaning colleagues. We should absolutely be discussing the rules for dating (and even friendships) at work. I don't have a great, all-encompassing answer. But the advice I gave one friend recently when he wondered whether or not he should ask out a woman he works with was, "You should only ask if you know the answer is going to be yes." How do you know the answer is going to be yes? You spend time talking to each other at work. You feel a certain mutual energy -- not a one-way physical attraction. It's obvious to you that she likes you and would want to go on a date with you. If you don't know she would say yes, you either need to practice developing your social skills or get over this girl. Because either you don't have the social savvy to stay out of trouble, or you're asking because of wishful thinking. And she shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable and objectified by some creepy dude she doesn't even like just because you were too lazy or emotional to examine and correctly interpret the interactions. 4. Hot guys can be creepy, too. It's not like being attractive gives you a free pass. Look what happened to Ashton Kutcher when he asked a sincere and important question about dating at work. Undoubtedly, part of the reason women seem not to find hot guys as creepy is your own motivated reasoning. Your mind clings to examples that confirm your existing views. It selectively forgets or overjustifies examples that don't. Even the world's best thinkers are prone to cognitive biases. And, yes, part of the reason women don't seem to find hot guys creepy is the whole, "If there's a mutual attraction, it's not creepy," thing. But another part of the reason may be that attractive men simply have more experience talking to and flirting with women. Communication is hard and messy, and the only way to get good at it is through practice. If you spend a lot of time watching porn and playing video games, you're not going to be as good at flirting or communicating as someone who goes out to bars, joins co-ed sports leagues, spends time pursuing hobbies, and makes plans to meet up with friends. THAT SAID. Hot guys can be creepy, too. I've met my share, and no amount of physical attractiveness makes it acceptable to harass women. ***
So, long story short, yes. If you're physically unattractive, you may have to approach flirting a little differently from those despised "hot guys." But one thing you can do right now, that will instantly make you more manly and attractive, is think about what behaviors of yours might be problematic... and how you cn correct them. Because, to me, one of the major differences between a man and a boy (and, for that matter, a woman and a little girl), is that a man takes accountability and doesn't blame his faults on other people.
142 Comments
Steve H
9/1/2018 02:14:41 pm
"If you're not SURE the answer is yes, don't ask her out."
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Daniel
9/1/2018 03:46:41 pm
Isn’t that just about the work place (3)? Obviously like at a bar you might not know if she’s interested or not and that’s ok. But if you ask someone out in the workplace and she says no that gets super uncomfortable for everyone. I had a friend who did that and it ended up super awkward.
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8/12/2020 11:15:33 am
Welcome to being a man where you’re judged 24/7 for the rest of your life while having to deal with women draining your wallet dry leaving you to die at a young age.
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Alun
10/8/2020 05:53:37 pm
Essentially if your not a good looking guy then just look at the floor or you risk being accused of harassment.
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cat observer
12/3/2018 09:13:38 pm
You brushed over a few important things. Those women in the tweets where complaining about ugly men hitting on them. not ugly men who refused to take no for an answer. I agree that if a woman is not reciprocating flirting you should back off but those women seemed to think that even one attempt at flirting is sexual harassment.
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12/6/2018 11:04:59 am
I do believe I addressed this in my post. That's kind of what I meant when I said,
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Never Gonna Get It
2/25/2020 08:06:01 am
The comic says it all. Stereotypical that the neckbeard is the one living in his mother's basement, behaving like an a-hole, at the porn convention, and a brony. If a good-looking guy was doing that shit, 9 times out of 10 women would be willing to overlook it. There are YouTube Tinder experiments where over the top obnoxious comments are tolerated and laughed off when attached to a good-looking guy's photo and the conversations keep going and going. 11/2/2020 07:43:13 am
A girl I liked once called me creepy.. I knew that it was not because she meant it, but because she was not that bright, and had become influenced by the social milieu of just calling a guy that without really thinking about it.
Morro
11/13/2020 03:55:42 am
I'm unattractive, I've learnt alot from this article and comments. Looks like a lonely existence for me. I looked up what cope or rope is (in the comments), think I'm gonna go with rope. 11/19/2020 06:59:15 am
Hi "Morro,"
Star fall
11/26/2020 10:57:07 am
@Eva, you can't keep repeating this trope about someone's behavior affecting being labeled "creepy." There's a wealth of data to demonstrate it in the negative that I'm sure has been presented to you already; you just need to actually vet the information. The perspective offered in this article is only damaging that it twists the narrative such that well-intentioned men approaching women and being called "creepy" for doing so is from an aspect of their behavior/decisions and not simply their looks. It discourages men from even trying, which is actually the goal when you think about it more (which this article does not demonstrate). You even *leaned into it* when someone explained that they have tried altering their behavior much to no avail. You seriously need to reconsider this standpoint given the information you have been presented.
eva damage control
12/7/2020 04:29:15 am
Please shut up, don't damage control.
Amine
1/3/2021 06:08:56 am
I hope you get AIDS and kick the bucket young. You're despicable and full of hate. We don't need this toxicity in society. Just leave.
Sana
1/3/2021 07:14:40 am
@eva damage control. Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? You're so out of touch with reality that you don't realize that things you said are sexist as shit. Women don't need men to provide for them. Seems to me that this whole "women only go out with good lucking guys and if they go out with ugly men it's for their money" is your way of justifying why you can't get a date.
Prescott Czygan
1/14/2021 08:15:42 am
Women have to accept either the responsibility of asking men out themselves or just dealing with being hit on. Suck it up buttercup, men are men and the only way we will know is if we make the approach.
cat observer
12/3/2018 09:45:04 pm
Another problem with your post.
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12/6/2018 11:11:35 am
People who sit on the couch all day are worse runners than people who exercise every day. Humans are great at understanding emotions and context -- but it is a skill that can take more practice for some people than others. Just like running. That doesn't mean you have to sit on the couch all day.
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cat observer
5/11/2019 09:47:07 am
My main point is that women, especially left leaning women, get very angry when an unattractive man shows interest. Then SOME of these women will use the privilege society grants them to attack the man as a creepy pervert. In other words these women will attempt to ostracize the man from society because he is unattractive. As an excuse for not finding this man attractive and to justify ostracism they say there is something wrong with how the man acted, when a more attractive man who did the same thing would not have a problem. This is a form of social bullying.
Dan
5/23/2020 12:06:29 pm
Untrue about running. I’ve personally met people who never exercise but can run a few miles effortlessly, and I know people who exercise regularly who struggle to complete a 5k for years. Genetics are king in fitness not matter what anyone wants to believe.
Tairu
10/14/2020 05:01:48 am
The fact that you wrote this & have faced no consequence for sexism & influencing society in accepting this as a new norm is a huge indication of the reason why men can see clear as day war has been declared on their sexuality & they want nothing but for men to be made into disposable slaves. The internet has exposed wmn for their negligent nature(men vs men) toward the male sex. They have lost the ability to be wives because of articles like these that push for the legal murder of men. Men that women want to establish their attractiveness off of, of the failures of men that they initiate. Men should treat ugly women the same way, because women clearly have shown an willingness to leave men without support as long as a group of men supports them. As long as men remain a unsolidified supportive group of each other as a whole, women will always be able to get away with these forms of bullying that they have no problem with men dealing with, but men can't even call a woman fat. While a woman due to the internet, now can take pride in(as if it makes her smv go up) rejecting men, they clearly want to involve harming the mans abilities with other women. Why is this article supporting such attitudes by women as if men are only meant to be alive if they are desired by every woman? When did women think they were "entitled" to be able to depict the quality of a mans life for her own personal gratification? That's LIKE SAYING WOMEN ASSUME IF THEY THINK A MAN IS UGLY THAN HE MUST BE A POTENTIAL RAPIST, OR IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING AT A JOB, OR TRYING TO BE A MASCULINE MAN! DO WOMEN BELIEVE BEING A MAN IS SOMETHING THAT WOMEN ALLOW OR DONT, DO MEN ONLY BE TREATED LIKE HUMAN BEINGS ONLY IF THEYRE ATTRACTIVE? SO AS MEN WE SHOULD DO THE SAME WITH WOMEN RIGHT? SHOULD WE GO TO HR WHEN A WOMAN ASKS US TO HELP HER WITH SOMETHING WHILE BEING UGLY, AS THIS IS OFFENSIVE TO US AS MEN AS WE ONLY WANT TO HELP ATTRACTIVE WOMEN WHO CAN BE A POTENTIAL BOOST TO OUR SOCIAL STATUS---wait, that would be like what women are doing with ugly men in the workplace. No potential benefit for the woman for the show of support, & the woman wants to hurt the man for almost hurting her socially by assuming she is not more attractive than what she is. . That's really damaging to her, like really(SARCASM). Not as much as trying to depict which men can be men at any given point as they go, & based on their own perceived smv being threatened by them having to be the loving caring & nurturing human beings that they claim to be for all the suitors they're trying to use. That's only for men that qualify, being an adult treating another adult like a human being goes out the window with women & female competition. Such civilized creatures right? Clearly women are phiny beginning to end in their so called love, there is nothing civilized about the way the women in the article are acting toward men. Guess women don't think they have to be civilized with men, they're disposable, just help them to be deleted cause YOU think they don't qualify. The rest of the men are disposable so that she may feel how she wants to. A woman like that has to be an adult that is truly emotionally intelligent indeed, to be able to put a mans ability to live in peace before how she feels. Shows us how much women love the idea of men hating them, they want men to hate them as much as women secretly hate themselves. As much as they hate men. This content is evidence that WOMEN ARE NOT CAPABLE OF LOVE for men. They don't even know how, they don't have love they have sex & needs of men. That's it! So for a man to want a woman is to want to help her, so it's not an excuse for a woman to be a jackas & TRY TO BLOCK A MAN IN HIS MISSION TO BE A MAN! this is not a grown woman, that is a adult child, crying for validation in her feelings as if they're the ones that really matter(no wonder we tell men they don't show emotion cause women can't handle the opinion of men about them if it was taught to boys that girls will try to kill you if they think you're ugly, gotta get suitors fk mens feelings right?). I think it's due to the internet being able to showcase that women are really covert prostitutes & mad about it. They have ruined their image & are in fight back mode to keep sex valuable to men so that this behavior like in this article is waived off as nothing but more evidence of that women are all talk. They are snowflakes who want to be lied to, want a fantasy. They're not being adults in any of these interactions, & their ability to cope with their emotions shouldn't cost a man his quality of life nor should he be disrespected to death like that. A woman cannot get away with calling a man a rapist to get attn for how she wants validation for how she thinks she looks or what her position makes her believe she can do. Toxic femininity at it's worse right here being pushed on our children so that women enforce their privileges given to them by(not surprisingly lied to & not called it in
Doubter
6/28/2019 06:18:45 pm
I do realize that grossly inappropriate advances and sexual harassment from men toward women is a huge problem that is way too prevalent across the world. Too many men do have an issue with sexual entitlement and lack of respect. Because of this, the #MeToo movement is very important and necessary. So, the point that I am about to make is not intended to dismiss that real issue.
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9/19/2019 01:39:21 pm
I agree so much about the ridiculousness of Hollywood. I would even add one to the list: I just watched Tall Girl (how could I not? I'm a tall girl!) and it bugged the crap out of me that this creepy little pervert, who harassed his "friend" by asking her out every single day at school, tried to sabotage her relationships with other guys, and SNUCK INTO HER ROOM AND TOUCHED HER WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING...
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daddy govt
7/1/2020 03:26:25 pm
I think all your comments should be canceled for being ugly & bias comments, & until you respond to cat observer we don't believe you are not just helping in pushing an agenda to destroy society.
datdude
7/21/2020 03:13:41 pm
Lol you are clearly trying to engineer the world so it works in your favor 100% and you never get hurt by it. And the worst part is you want to legislate it to serve you, like women typically do. You will be the first to go when society stops working or taking you very kindly anymore.
Jeff
9/15/2020 10:11:04 am
"creepy little fucker" 9/15/2020 01:57:33 pm
Sounds like SOMEONE'S a little (err... sorry... does that word trigger you??) sensitive!
Star Fall
11/26/2020 11:02:32 am
@Eva
Xavier
7/13/2019 11:53:40 am
Legally speaking you cannot have different sets of rules for ugly men and attractive men.
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7/16/2019 09:39:39 am
The rule is the same no matter who you are: flirting is only okay when it's reciprocal.
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Star Fall
11/26/2020 11:05:26 am
@Eva again, being calles a "creep" is potentially career damaging, and has nothing to do with behavior, for example the time I was called a creep for being black while waiting in front of a house to pick my friend up. You need to actually hear these arguments and provide a meaningful conversation rather than plugging your ears.
Carl
8/3/2019 10:53:48 am
Yep. Sad but true. Women want the double standard that Chad get's to hit on them but an unattractive guy does not.
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8/3/2019 11:07:38 am
Honey, if people are calling you creepy, you haven't done it right.
Carl
8/3/2019 12:27:38 pm
Honey, if people are calling you creepy, you haven't done it right.
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Anonymous
9/16/2019 10:44:17 am
Eva,
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The statement, "You want them to look past your appearance? Maybe you should do the same," is completely gender neutral. This article just happens to be for and about men. But I agree with you. With the exception of "older" ("older" isn't the same as balding, short, etc., because, while people love to say older women have less good eggs, older men also have less healthy sperm, plus there are plenty of other considerations - do you really want your husband to be 80 when you're 60, etc.), it makes sense to not be a shallow jerk. (It's just science. People typically end up with people who are like them. Unless there's a confounding factor, 7s end up with 7s, 3s with 3s, etc. )
Jay
8/15/2020 01:16:46 pm
"If you happen to be super physically attractive, maybe." 8/15/2020 01:37:00 pm
Jay, you sound like you need to take a xanax. You aren't making any sense, and if you think I'm going to engage with someone who is clearly mentally disturbed, you are mistaken. Call your therapist. 9/19/2019 01:54:33 pm
A man on a construction site yells obscene things to a 12-year-old girl on her way to school. A man takes creepy photos of a woman who is sunbathing in her yard.
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DB
2/19/2020 07:50:28 pm
Gossip is also what leads to stereotyping, bigotry, racism, and witch hunts. The Norse recognized the destructive power of gossip; The squirrel Rattatoskr, the God of Gossip, was deliberately attempting to destroy the world by spreading gossip, exaggerating insults, and instigating outrage wherever he went. 2/20/2020 12:43:12 pm
Everything good can also lead to bad things. But gossip is an extremely good thing when it helps women know which men to avoid because they are creepy, rapey, or otherwise disrespectful of women's bodies, boundaries, and autonomy.
Jay
8/15/2020 01:20:26 pm
" But I don't owe you shit just because you think I'm pretty."
joe
12/7/2020 05:24:37 pm
i dont think we can generalize.women do need to be careful in todays world when they dont know someone. however if an attractive or an ugly man gives a sweet compliment to a woman,having no ulterior motive but to respond to someone blessed with grace and beauty it should be taken in a good way. it may not be flirting at all. should an ugly man be banned from a national park too. a compliment is a compliment if its sincere.
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Anonymous
9/18/2019 02:52:41 pm
"...it makes sense not to be a shallow jerk."
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9/18/2019 03:35:44 pm
No, not at all. When you copy-paste random quotes without context, you can make anything sound like anything. Or, as Shakespeare might have said, "The devil can cite scripture for his purpose."
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Doubter
9/18/2019 04:38:54 pm
Hi Eva,
Anonymous
9/18/2019 08:32:21 pm
I don't think they were "random quotes without context." On the contrary. The brevity and abruptness of these two statements gives all the context I need to explain my point. However, you, for whatever reason, are not willing to acknowledge how these two statements negate other arguments you're trying to make.
Doubter
9/19/2019 01:50:08 am
Dear Anonymous (and Eva -- see below),
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Anonymous
9/19/2019 10:41:10 am
I don't want her to have the "I'm taking my ball and going home, I don't wanna play anymore" reaction to my comments, so for the sake of her participation in this important discussion, I'll try my level best to turn down the temperature. But I'm not going to turn it down so much that she is not held accountable for her shaming language and perpetuance of double standards against men. When she makes hot-button statements about hot-button social issues, she should expect her haughty, sanctimonious assertions to be responded to in kind. To you, her language may be "consistently respectful." To me, her "consitently repsectful" language is patronizing and sanctimonious, carefully worded to feign politeness. It does not give her an excuse not to justify and defend her statments. The strength of steel is measured by its ability to withstand the most intense heat. 9/19/2019 01:06:56 pm
Doubter, 9/19/2019 01:23:50 pm
Doubter (cont),
Doubter
9/19/2019 09:08:41 pm
Thanks for your responses. They are appreciated. Your last comment has no "Reply" button, so I'm starting a new thread.
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Doubter
9/19/2019 09:12:55 pm
My last comment was truncated apparently. This is the rest of it:
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9/20/2019 03:05:38 pm
First, bleh. I hate it when comments get truncated. I wish I could make it so you at least get a warning before your text just gets lost forever. 9/20/2019 04:27:26 pm
(cont) I haven't seen that documentary, but I'm not surprised women were weird to that imposter-lady. I mean, everything about her was a lie, no? And, undoubtedly, despite wearing boy clothes, it's impossible for her to truly embody a man. Her whole thing was she was misrepresenting herself, and every word out of her mouth was a lie. People are kind of good at detecting authenticity. So, having not see it, that's my gut impression.
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9/20/2019 04:32:17 pm
(cont) >> If she was scared when a group of black men walked by, would they be "creepy"?
Doubter
9/21/2019 09:10:21 pm
Hi Eva,
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9/22/2019 11:19:36 am
I know "it depends on context" isn't a satisfying answer, and it's not an EASY answer, but it's true. Every person and situation is different, which is part of why giving advice on interpersonal topics is so hard. You can't just say, "If someone did X and the other person did Y, is that fair?" because so much is missing from that hypothetical. The whole point of this post is that you HAVE to pay attention to the social cues, because in most cases (yes, I acknowledged, some women are superficial or judge-y, but some men are also jerks) that's going to be a key factor in whether someone finds you creepy.
Ben
2/4/2020 03:14:15 pm
I just want to say that I loved reading this exchange. There were moments where I felt like y'all were talking past each other a little, but I'm really impressed with how you were both generally able to keep it civil and bring up interesting points.
Nomad
9/20/2019 06:26:07 am
This is moronic. It’s extremely hypocritical in an age where women cry about fat shaming and everything else under the sun. So you say a man can’t even talk to a woman if he isn’t hot enough? Get off your high horse, most of these women aren’t exactly hotties themselves. Even if they were it doesn’t mean you have some right to be nasty to people without getting negative feed back. You don’t have to date people you aren’t attracted too but have some common courtesy.
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9/20/2019 02:27:35 pm
I said none of those things -- don't be so hypersensitive. Take a deep breath, calm down, and actually read the article.
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Anonymous
9/22/2019 02:07:37 pm
"I wouldn't date a fat dude, either. How could he possibly keep up with me on my multi-day hiking trips, surf adventures, etc.?" 9/24/2019 03:13:21 pm
Well, in that case, it sounds like your girlfriend had shitty friends. They must not have known her that well, to not even know that her boyfriend was on the football team (college sports are a HUGE time commitment, to the point that "student-athlete" can feel like a misnomer -- so how the heck would a caring friend miss that?). The questions they were asking her also sound super invasive and obnoxious and ignorant. These definitely sound like the types of girls that are unnecessarily cruel, and it sucks that both of you had to deal with them.
Anonymous
9/22/2019 06:53:59 pm
* I doubt that you would like it if a man wrote a piece criticizing the various things he didn't like about certain women's body parts.
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9/24/2019 02:54:03 pm
I'm not a social justice warrior. I think men are allowed to like or dislike whatever women's body parts they want, from stomach fat to small boobs to "lady dicks."
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Anonymous
9/25/2019 08:52:00 am
This does not comport with your prior sentiment of people being "shallow jerks."
qmulus
10/8/2019 04:42:20 pm
>"But another part of the reason may be that attractive men simply have more experience talking to and flirting with women. Communication is hard and messy, and the only way to get good at it is through practice."
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DB
2/19/2020 07:27:27 pm
"And she shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable and objectified by some creepy dude she doesn't even like just because you were too lazy or emotional to examine and correctly interpret the interactions."
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2/20/2020 12:41:01 pm
You can call me ableist all you want, but you will NEVER hear me say that women need to tolerate discomfort to make someone else comfortable, even if that someone else is somehow more "oppressed" than women.
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James
2/21/2020 05:22:25 pm
Good day, Eva. 2/25/2020 08:34:23 pm
James, I think you forgot to read the article before commenting... I wouldn't tolerate creepy behavior from any man, no matter how attractive he is, and that's clearly stated in this and other posts.
Jason
3/6/2020 11:49:17 am
Here’s a hypothetical situation that men face Jow would you resolve it.
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3/7/2020 10:17:45 am
This one is easy.
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Dude
3/18/2020 11:47:31 am
I agree with the central point. The defining element of whether attention is harassment is whether the attention is desired or not. Even as a romantically unsuccessful dude, I've had romantic attention that I would have rathered not have, so I have some inkling of the feeling.
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3/21/2020 11:42:37 am
"He must be rich," is a thing I've overheard people say when they see the man I'm dating and observe (sometimes loudly) that he is not as attractive as I am. No... he's just smarter than pretty much anyone else I've ever met, kinder and more compassionate and funnier and more exciting to be with than other people I know. For me, attractiveness is a pleasant bonus, but it's not a priority.
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Star Fall
11/26/2020 11:12:20 am
@eva
Grindstone
4/4/2020 09:51:34 pm
You talk a big game but you strike me as a typical narcissist in the method that you use to respond to people but completely ignore major points of their argument.
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4/5/2020 01:33:18 pm
Honey... you've done the same thing everyone else who failed to make their point did.
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Social
4/10/2020 09:04:08 am
This problem is solved when women approach men and ask them out....but they won't. *shrug*
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6/8/2020 11:05:01 am
Some will. I wouldn't hesitate to ask someone out if I found him interesting. In fact, I would go so far as to say if I didn't ask, I wasn't interested.
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Truth Bringer
5/31/2020 02:27:33 am
So basically what you're saying is; if a person is born ugly, they will never get to experience happiness. Seriously, why bother letting them spend a lifetime wondering why they don't get to be happy? With this type of distortion and unfair bias, basically what you're saying is; "Ugly people may as well kill themselves."
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6/8/2020 11:12:53 am
I'm not sure where you read that, but it wasn't on this website.
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Jay
8/15/2020 01:31:39 pm
Actually, it is you typical dumb fat white feminist Nazi trash. Bitches like this think they are all strong and tough but look for a mangina type man to defend them
Paul
8/30/2020 09:39:47 am
But as a physically unattractive guy, I have zero chance to even establish myself as attractive in another way, because, as another commentator said above, “[c]urrently we live in a society where women are encouraged to be as shitty as possible while men are policed for even the most minor infractions.“ Another element of this is the widespread shallowness of society in general - many (most?) women simply don’t give physically unattractive guys any chance at all. We might become platonic friends based on one or more shared interests, etc., but there is *never* a chance of anything other than that. Guys are often told to show their romantic / sexual interest in a woman they find attractive in the first 2-3 interactions, but for us unattractive guys, that appears to be a one way ticket to rejection or worse... In the face of all this, I don’t bother expressing interest in women at all.
Casa Jova
6/7/2020 09:48:23 am
There are a couple of themes worth addressing against the point men are making on a recurring basis here.
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Jay
8/15/2020 01:39:03 pm
"he politely giggles and declines, and you tip your hat and stroll away"
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Mike
8/23/2020 08:40:42 am
What assault? Someone call the police!!!
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Mike
8/23/2020 08:42:48 am
Continued:
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mike
8/23/2020 08:45:17 am
who I stopped to talk to on her smoke break.
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Mike
8/23/2020 09:09:04 am
One last thing - if a woman thinks you're "creepy" just for showing an interest in her, you really shouldn't care.
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Daddy govt
7/1/2020 03:29:04 pm
I think all your comments should be canceled for being ugly & bias comments, & until you respond to cat observer we don't believe you are not just helping in pushing an agenda to destroy society.
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7/4/2020 08:59:11 am
I can tell from your first sentence that you are overemotional and incapable of reason. But I'll try to address a few of your rantings, anyway.
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Daddy govt
10/14/2020 10:11:55 am
"I can tell from your first sentence that you are overemotional and incapable of reason. But I'll try to address a few of your rantings, anyway."- 10/14/2020 08:53:57 pm
I won't try to reason with you, because you' obviously rather play the victim than figure out how to behave in a way that isn't entitled and creepy, but re: the Walmart thing. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure what happened, but here's what I think based on what you've said:
Jay
8/15/2020 01:44:43 pm
"I think all your comments should be canceled for being ugly"
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Jay
8/15/2020 01:04:40 pm
Firstly, this woman Eva is a disgusting Fat bodied subhuman SLOB.
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TN
10/4/2020 04:57:29 pm
Even if women were forced to talk to men, it wouldn't affect you at all because you're not a man. You're a boy packing nothing but failure.
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Sam
9/9/2020 01:09:15 pm
If your a feminist, and if you complain about being harassed, then you are an ignorant little bitch
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9/9/2020 11:21:25 pm
If my a feminist what, now?
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Allen
10/2/2020 11:20:11 am
So your advice to a short (5’5”) not-conventionally attractive introverted shy guy, your advice would basically be never to approach any woman because I just don’t have a chance?
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10/4/2020 01:28:43 pm
Yeah, that's TOTALLY what I said! Good job reading the article before commenting!!
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Tipsy
10/4/2020 04:48:40 pm
It's hilarious to see all these dudes desperately trying to sound intelligent, while writing different variations of the same thing, which is:
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Tairu
10/14/2020 05:33:32 am
Yet.. Here you are as well. With the need to make that self-gratifying comment. Way to male shame. I got a good feeling these attn seeking articles will stop now. All because of your great comment. Thks
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Damond
10/24/2020 07:14:03 am
The best thing to do is to not talk to women at all man.. Stay to yourself, it's not worth it, they're not worth it...
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10/24/2020 07:19:37 am
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Omg, I thought this was satire for a second, but I think you're being serious.
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Damond Moore
10/24/2020 08:18:38 am
And second of all, maturity hasn't gotten me anywhere if for the simple fact that I'm unattractive. So kick your bull shit to a sucker who believes that shit.
Anonymous
12/18/2020 06:43:37 am
Your "advice" in your article is not helpful. And stop making heartless responses to people you know are thinking about suicide. How disgusting are you?
Damond Moore
10/24/2020 08:14:02 am
You're a woman so I expected that reply, but you don't know me. I have two jobs, pay my own bills with no help at all. I'm a very independent man and for you to call me a child because I don't want to live in a world full devil's in blue dresses is some bull shit. Y'all are evil as fuck!
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10/24/2020 08:17:27 am
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a big man with TWO WHOLE JOBS. Which is why it's so weird you have this defeated, childlike attitude. Women REALLY aren't into that "Boo-hoo! Poor me!!" thing -- from an evolutionary perspective, women who went for men like that died, because they attached themselves to someone who was helpless and defeated.
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Cat Observer
10/30/2020 12:01:55 pm
Why can't you take him at his word? He might just be unattractive. I know a doctor who is compassionate and smart. He is mature and volunteers at city clean up events. He's also a 36 year old virgin. And that's no surprise. He is a 5'6'' Asian man. If he was a woman, taller, had a better face, or white he would be married by now. If his family stayed in China he might have found a wife by now, but in America he has to compete with white guys so even Asian women don't want him. 11/2/2020 09:03:07 am
If he were truly that wonderful, he'd've found a partner by now. There's obviously some interpersonal dysfunction going on there that's creeping people out or driving women away.
Damond Moore
10/24/2020 08:44:38 am
Like I said you don't know me, and this is not a boo hoo moment. Just imagine you were a man, and you turned down by every woman that you came across. Anytime you went out with your friend's or male family members, women would approach them leaving you out to dry and look at you with a bit of disgust.. And the shit just keeps happening like a revolving door. Let that sink in for a minute! And yeah yeah I know, men aren't entitled to a women, I get that and respect that. You also have to respect the fact that a lot of men will get tired of going through that bs, and get so numb that they won't care to be women anymore and just say fuck it.
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11/2/2020 08:57:15 am
If that happened to me, I would find another way to meet women instead of doing the same thing over and over, even though it clearly wasn't working. Like... you know there are other dating strategies, right?
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Cat
10/30/2020 11:51:36 am
Right now 1 in 3 18-24 year old men haven't had sex in a year. I doubt all of these men are just "immature man babies" who need to grow up.
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11/2/2020 08:55:59 am
They wouldn't be incels if they had something to offer. However, they're whiny little boys with little or nothing to offer women, so obviously no woman wants them.
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Cat
12/2/2020 08:39:19 am
You can't blame the individual men when the number of incels is that large, especially since this wasn't the case a decade ago. Clearly some large scale societal forces beyond these men's control are at work.
exdeath
11/8/2020 09:42:14 pm
Every single response you're making to people has been rife with ad-hominem. It seems that every time someone challenges your viewpoint, your first instinct is to jump to calling them "incel". I have no doubt you'll do something similar with my own comment, so I may as well tell you my own two cents - you seem like a frustrated individual who has little reason to be frustrated at all.
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11/9/2020 03:03:23 am
I have no reason to be frustrated -- my life is awesome!
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Mike
11/13/2020 01:26:47 am
"They wouldn't be incels if they had something to offer."
Lis
11/15/2020 08:15:07 am
Dear Eva,
exdeath
11/20/2020 07:40:53 pm
you're doing it right now.
Anderson
12/17/2020 08:49:08 pm
"Social skills are just that. Skills. You can learn them if you want to."
Anderson
1/12/2021 04:34:51 pm
Mike,
Sascha
11/15/2020 08:31:58 am
I can't see how a well adjusted, happy person, living an awesome life could write an article like this, respond to commenters challenging it's central thesis (those ignorant bodyshaming posts and the like aside) with vitriol and condescension, and be generally closed minded and mean spirited. I would be utterly ashamed to type these sorts of things, let alone post them for the the internet to read.
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11/15/2020 06:56:15 pm
That's a great question. I'm glad you asked! There are three reasons I don't sugarcoat my replies to comments:
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Mike
11/18/2020 02:39:10 pm
Hello Eva 11/19/2020 06:27:24 am
So technically the reply was to "Sascha," not you. But.
Snipes
11/29/2020 09:37:33 am
I bet these unattractive men in the comments aren’t trying to date women in their own league but only want women much hotter than themselves. If you’re not willing to date a woman less attractive then don’t be mad when a hottie doesn’t want to date you. She is no more or less shallow than you are.
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Cat
12/2/2020 08:26:31 am
Unless a society enforces monogamy the top 20% of men will take 80% of the women (actual numbers may vary). So an average girl can get fucked by Chads every night and still not be able to lock down one any of these Chads for a long term relationship. But every Chad that rails her out gives her hope that one day she'll marry a rich stud. Her looks match, an average guy, meanwhile only matches with very ugly girls on Tinder and would rather go without.
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Sana
12/13/2020 04:15:05 am
Dude, where the hell do you get these ideas from? Also, did you really say Chad? That and your other answers make you seem like a textbook nice guy.
zack50
12/7/2020 08:45:13 am
The level of entitlement from women in these comments is frankly astonishing. You actually think you're entitled to ruin a man's career or set a twitter mob on him because he committed the crime of asking you out when you don't find him attractive? Wow.
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Anderson
12/17/2020 05:38:46 pm
Anyone who does that, man or woman, is just as vile as any deviant the author of this blog is complaining about.
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Azmodan
12/12/2020 08:22:47 pm
"Yes, all else equal, women like men who are tall and handsome. BUT. What's going to be a lot more important than that in the long-run is his ability to provide"...
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Azmodan
1/9/2021 07:00:10 pm
So you admit you're a gold-digging whore who basically only values a man based on what he can give you, not what he is... 1/9/2021 07:26:11 pm
Nope. I admit that I don't think you have very good reading comprehension skills because you are too emotional to understand what you read.
Prescott Czygan
1/14/2021 08:29:11 am
Women in general just plain suck. Stop demonizing men and how we do things”a. Women left it up to us to do the approaching so we will continue to approach. If a women says you are creepy then remind her she’s just a stuck up bitch. STOP BEING NICE TO THEM. STOP CATERING TO THEIR FEELINGS. START ACTING LIKE MEN AGAIN AND TAKE WHAT YOU WANT. WOMEN BE DAMNED.
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1/20/2021 05:53:44 am
It's very stupid that you think simply "approaching" a woman is going to lead to something, whether you do it well or not. You can't just throw a basketball at a hoop -- well, you can, I guess, but it will never go in and people are going to call you names because you suck and they're going to do anything they can to keep you off their team. Same with approaching women. The way you do it clearly sucks or people wouldn't be calling you creepy. Figure out a better way to do it.
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Andrew
1/16/2021 11:15:17 am
Eva, you come off as creepy and egotistic in this post and the ensuing comments. You should consider taking your own advice.
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1/20/2021 05:47:16 am
Haha, yes, I am totally going around in this post hitting on people who clearly aren't interested in me.
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mabalahibo
1/24/2021 08:01:05 pm
So if I'm ugly I just have to find another way to approach flirting differently.
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1/25/2021 09:45:09 am
It's not "repulsive" for you to TALK to them. It's repulsive for you to HIT ON someone who isn't interested. If you are ugly, you should get to know people before hitting on them, or the only thing they will have to judge you by are your looks, so they will obviously reject you.
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