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"It is a happy talent to know how to play."

That Overused Comic About "Double Standards" Actually Means the OPPOSITE Of What Dudes Think It Does

2/22/2021

38 Comments

 
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This stupid comic! Three different people posted this on my social media this morning in  unrelated discussions about "unfair double standards."

Which is why I feel morally obligated to inform you: if you actually look at it, this comic means the opposite of what you think it does. 

What you think it means, after a quick and sloppy glance, is that "it's only creepy if the guy isn't hot."

However, if you actually look at the comic, the message is quite clear: 

FLIRTING IS ONLY FUN WHEN IT IS RECIPROCATED. 

In the first image, Susan is delighted that the man is flirting with her. They have a great energy. They're making great eye contact and smiling at each other. Her shoulders are squared more towards him, and less towards her computer. 

In the second image, Susan looks disgusted and horrified. Her body is squared to her computer, because she is working and clearly doesn't want to be interrupted. And some dude that she clearly isn't into is complimenting her body. 

The comic clearly and accurately points out, if you continue flirting with a coworker who isn't interested in you, it is sexual harassment.

This isn't a "double standard" — it's common sense. Flirting is only fun when it is mutual and reciprocated. Otherwise, it's creepy at best. 

Moreover, as I wrote in "Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity, anyone who claims that "the exact same same behavior" is acceptable when an attractive man does it, but is "creepy" or "harassment" when an unattractive man does it, is completely ignoring the woman's agency in this interction.

Women aren't chatbots. They don't have programmed responses for identical phrases. They have agency. They have preferences. They have situational awareness. They are not the passive recipients of male action. 

If a woman finds a man attractive, then his flirting behavior is NOT identical to that of a man the woman doesn't find attractive. The attractive man is engaging in a mutual and fun flirtation. The unattractive man is creepily hitting on someone who isn't interested. 

(And, as a side note: ​If a Girl You Were Hitting On Was Rude to You, It's Probably Your Fault.)

I mean — look at poor Susan! 
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Imagine if you made that face at someone and he just kept gushing about your body and hitting on you — almost as though he didn't give a shit he was making you uncomfortable. 

So what is an unattractive man to do? Here is some advice I shared in What Men Don't Understand When They Complain, "It's Only Creepy If The Guy Isn't Hot":
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A decent rule of thumb is, "If you're not SURE the answer is yes, don't ask her out."

In July 2017, Ashton Kutcher, an American actor and investor, was berated on Twitter for trying to start a conversation about rules for dating in the workplace. 

Which is absolutely ridiculous. It's a perfectly valid question. If we don't discuss "clear red lines" and rules for dating at work, we spread ignorance and fear. Male and female employees may become afraid to interact with one another. Women may miss out on opportunities to discuss promotions and raises, because their bosses are afraid to have a closed-door meeting with them. Bosses may fear asking employees out for a drink to discuss a project, for fear this could be interpreted wrong. 

And, of course, women (and men) could get hurt, by both malicious and well-meaning colleagues. 

We should absolutely be discussing the rules for dating (and even friendships) at work. 

I don't have a great, all-encompassing answer. But the advice I gave one friend recently when he wondered whether or not he should ask out a woman he works with was, "You should only ask if you know the answer is going to be yes."

How do you know the answer is going to be yes? 

You spend time talking to each other at work. You feel a certain mutual energy -- not a one-way physical attraction. It's obvious to you that she likes you and would want to go on a date with you.

If you don't know she would say yes, you either need to practice developing your social skills or get over this girl. Because either you don't have the social savvy to stay out of trouble, or you're asking because of wishful thinking.

And she shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable and objectified by some creepy dude she doesn't even like just because you were too lazy or emotional to examine and correctly interpret the interactions. 

 Read more >
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Here is more advice, shared by Joe in the comments of the aforementioned post:
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I think many men on here are missing a key piece of puzzle that will help them understand this apparent double standard a little better: Complimenting any part of a person's body or attractiveness when you don't know them is considered socially unacceptable. This goes for all genders. A similar situation would be how a person may be okay with a friend criticizing their weight but would be insulted if a stranger did it.

Now my fellow men, before you flame me for that observation, note that I'm not saying that it is illegal, nor am I saying it is sexual harassment. I'm simply pointing out that the behaviour is considered a social faux pas. You are more than welcome to exercise your right to free speech to approach a woman and tell her you think she is beautiful, but she is likewise entitled to decide how to respond to that.

You see, the thing is, if you choose to do this, you are the one breaking social convention. I know that the attractive guy is equally guilty of breaking this social convention, and so I can see why it may seem tempting to say that it is unfair that both guys don't end up with the same "punishment", but dating is not a court of law; there are no set penalties for social infractions. Social interaction is complicated, and women are not chat robots spitting out generic and predictable responses. Also, if a person does overstep and causes offence, then the other person always has the right to choose to forgive them; would you not agree?

This is what is really happening. Both guys are in the wrong, but more attractive men have realized that many women will often forgive their transgression, and so they go for it anyway, risking the consequences. This is why Eva is advising you to avoid this kind of social risk taking at work, save it for the bar.



Obviously flirting is more likely to be mutual when a man is attractive — especially when it comes to someone you've just met or don't know well. 

If all I know about you is what you look like, what can I judge you by except what you look like? 

So if you consider yourself to be unattractive, then obviously your approach to flirting needs to be different from that of a man who is considered attractive. 

Is life fair? No. 

But are women attracted to men who constantly whine about how life isn't fair?

Also no.

Women are not attracted to men who feel like helpless victims. Women are not attracted to men who feel less control over the world around them than a child. If you're not getting anywhere with women, there's a decent chance that your helpless attitude — which is going to show, whether you discuss it with her or not — is the real reason why.

So accept that you look how you look — then take control. (Again, no woman is attracted to helplessness.) Work on your social skills. Work on paying attention to women's social cues and responses to your flirting. Take the time to get to know someone before you compliment her body or indicate you want to have sex with her. Be patient. You might want to check out The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism, as it will help you learn some of the charisma other people use in social situations.
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And remember: the idea that women are chatbots who are obligated to treat you a certain way, whether they find you attractive or not, is, itself, a very creepy idea. Obliterate it from your mind and remember that women are people, just like men.
38 Comments
Joe G
4/12/2021 10:05:32 pm

Just came to gloat on making the quote; thanks for highlighting my comment.

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Chris
4/24/2021 04:17:42 pm

If this only happened in the context of dating it would be at least understandable from an empathetic point of view.

But that's not how it is at all. Individualism has made most people feel entitled to only have daily interactions with people they view as "equal or better". And that includes looks.

Lots of interactions are considered "faux pas" or "breaking convention" if the person is conventionally unattractive.

We're fast headed towards a society where a large portion of both men and women end up as part of an underclass of people who learn on their own that they aren't allowed to speak unless first spoken to. And that they are most definitely not allowed to speak up for themselves.

Which is how you end up with people who are meek and "whiny".

You're effectively asking people who already got a shit hand dealt in life (by being ugly) to put in double the work of their peers for less than equal recognition.

Sure we could say that human interactions are a "free market" and ignoring an ugly but competent person will "cost" you opportunity.

But humans aren't robots and it takes a huge amount of inborn self discipline and talent for someone who's starting at a disadvantage not to get discouraged even when presented with constant ostracization.

Therefore the "market" of human interactions is inherently biased against "ugly, creepy" people as most of them simply can't keep up with all the shit thrown their way just to maintain the same baseline their "fair-looking" peers have with much less effort invested.If this only happened in the context of dating it would be at least understandable from an empathetic point of view.

But that's not how it is at all. Individualism has made most people feel entitled to only have daily interactions with people they view as "equal or better". And that includes looks.

Lots of interactions are considered "faux pas" or "breaking convention" if the person is conventionally unattractive.

We're fast headed towards a society where a large portion of both men and women end up as part of an underclass of people who learn on their own that they aren't allowed to speak unless first spoken to. And that they are most definitely not allowed to speak up for themselves.

Which is how you end up with people who are meek and "whiny".

You're effectively asking people who already got a shit hand dealt in life (by being ugly) to put in double the work of their peers for less than equal recognition.

Sure we could say that human interactions are a "free market" and ignoring an ugly but competent person will "cost" you opportunity.

But humans aren't robots and it takes a huge amount of inborn self discipline and talent for someone who's starting at a disadvantage not to get discouraged even when presented with constant ostracization.

Therefore the "market" of human interactions is inherently biased against "ugly, creepy" people as most of them simply can't keep up with all the shit thrown their way just to maintain the same baseline their "fair-looking" peers have with much less effort invested.

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Joe
5/16/2021 02:18:32 pm

Lookism (discrimination based on attractiveness) definitely exists, but similar to our discussion on the other post I think you're giving it way too much weight. Certainly life can be easier if you're attractive, but I get the impression from you that you believe ugliness is an almost insurmountable barrier. I know plenty of conventionally unattractive people who're living happy lives, are employed, and loved.

From our discussions I've really gotten the opinion that your self esteem has been severely hurt. I think you've developed an unhealthy obsession with your appearance to the point that you allow it to affect every aspect of your life. Obviously I've never met you so that's speculation on my part, but I'm saying it anyway because I really hope you will seek out some support so you can find some happiness someday.

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Valerie Edwards
6/19/2021 10:06:12 am

Do young single men want to be hit on all the time by greasy balding toothless older women who reek of cigarette smoke who won't take no for an answer and don't know what personal boundaries are? My guess is probably not. You're a hypocrite if you believe that young women must put up with ugly old men who are extremely persistent and be "nice" to them no matter how uncomfortable it makes us feel but you don't think that men should put up with the same thing. Men are not entitled to our time and attention and we have no obligation to be kind and gentle to men who make us feel uncomfortable. It is quite evident that men have no idea what women have to go through on a daily basis and that a lot of men lack sympathy with our struggles as women. Women have been seriously injured and killed for turning men down that they were not interested in. Men don't have to worry about that because they don't face those same pressures.

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Valerie Edwards
6/19/2021 10:27:36 am

There's a terror group made up of angry embittered men called "incels" who angrily rage at women for not finding them attractive and have been responsible for several acts of terroristic mass violence against women in the past few years. Every women out there has to regularly fear coming across an "incel" type person because are the kinds of men who will kill women for not being kind and pleasant enough to them. Men don't have to worry about this because so called "unfuckable women" aren't forming terrorist groups and going on killing sprees to target men who aren't into them sexually or romantically. Obviously there are a few good men out there (though they're a tiny minority) who aren't violent misogynists and who won't kill us for turning them down but a significant number of men are misogynists and we have to be on our guard all the time so that the creepy violent men out there won't kill or seriously injure us.

Patrick link
7/7/2021 09:48:41 am

And it is fine if hot when want to hit on me.

JC
8/13/2021 04:35:10 pm

Exactly! These days there's no telling what will happen if you say "no" Men have a hard enough time telling other men "no when they're asked for money or rides or favors from other men so I can imagine how it is for a woman to say no to someone that can easily take their life or seriously injure them. You can thank all the quacks, dating coaches and snake oil salesmen for preaching all that junk science to these guys that if they're persistent then they'll eventually win her over with "game" or "personality". The most dangerous half truth sold to the average American male is that "inner beauty" is the only thing that fuels a woman's passion or interest and they get irate when nothing they do ever works and they're sorry they've ever gotten involved with her in the first place.

Hitch
12/18/2021 06:31:48 pm

Yep, most of these men that make women uncomfortable have no self awareness and sense of boundaries and sometimes they know in their heart that they mean no harm but the women they're making uncomfortable and the rest of the world doesn't know that. These guys don't realize that they are exactly the guy that every parent warns their kids to stay away from.

John
12/15/2021 12:51:39 pm

Unfortunately the ones in the underclass are the peons of society, and when you're at the lowest rank, there is no right or wrong, just opinions and our opinions are not welcome, that's why we're not allowed to speak up for ourselves. We're just supposed to do what we're told and not ask for or expect anything in return. There is no representation on the horizon for unattractive people.

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Sheikh Yerbooty
5/1/2021 09:44:05 pm

>>Women are not attracted to men who feel like helpless victims. Women are not attracted to men who feel less control over the world around them than a child. If you're not getting anywhere with women, there's a decent chance that your helpless attitude — which is going to show, whether you discuss it with her or not — is the real reason why.<<

These men are bitter. And bitter men are bitter because they are WEAK. Nobody likes weak men. Women don't like weak men. Other men don't like weak men. Men are expected to be strong. Women are not. That's how the game is played.

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JC
8/8/2021 08:30:02 am

Well said! Society views weak and bitter men as pond scum and these men are pretty much put in the same category as rapists and pedophiles.

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Will
2/6/2023 11:57:45 am

Honestly I see this a lot, people complaining about ugly people being bitter or unhappy and them not liking this. Well no s*** they're f****** bitter and unhappy, if you'd been treated like subhuman garbage your entire life because you were born a certain way I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed off yourself.

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ChAnt
3/10/2024 02:15:29 pm

Imagine being such a loser you have to project your own ideas onto the people. In an ideal world all of you fucking masculinity copers would tortured to death.

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Valerie Edwards
6/19/2021 09:48:57 am

Thank you for saying this. A lot of men don't seem to realise that the main thing that distinguishes creepy interactions from non creepy interactions is that creepy interactions feel forced, uncomfortable, and unwanted for the person on the receiving end of them. Friendly non creepy interactions (including flirting) are mutually enjoyable for everyone involved and don't feel forced for anyone. It must also be said that unusual "ugly" physical features aren't the only thing that can make someone appear creepy either; a good looking guy with poor posture, body language/ tone of voice that doesn't match what he's saying, and generally poor social skills is also quite likely to come off as creepy when interacting with others. Context can also matter since guys who flirt with women who they have economic/legal/educational power over can really wreck the person who they are flirting with life over if they refuse their advances (such as what happened with Brie Larson and the TSA agent who hit on her at the airport). For the guys who will read this never flirt with a woman going about her day on the street (especially at night), a woman wearing headphones, a woman on public transport, a woman walking to her car in a carpark, or anywhere else where approaching someone could come across as dangerous and where approaching someone for a date doesn't fit the social context. Women really don't like it when you do this and it's more likely to get you pepper sprayed than you getting a date. I'd recommend checking out the men's dating blogger Dr. Nerdlove for helpful tips on how to approach women and get us interested without coming across as a creep. https://www.doctornerdlove.com/

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Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 07:14:18 pm

Now this article is just beyond ridiculous Eva. I have seen this same comic on bored panda and a couple other sites and it is always getting reposted. The most bizarre thing is I see it being posted about more often by women like Eva here, than I do men complaining about the comic’s subject matter.

Every time I see one of my younger feminist sisters post this they try and tell men that it is an example of, not how attractive men can get away with flirting while unattractive men can’t, but that they believe it shows that unattractive men get reported because they always persist in flirting when it’s not reciprocated. Which is one example of the typically sweeping over generalizations made far too often by the younger generations calling themselves feminists these days.

This comic strip shows a simple comparison of 1 single behavior, that is being engaged in by one attractive man and one not so attractive man in exactly the same way to exactly the same woman. Then it depicts how that woman responds to each man. It shows the woman showing appreciation for being complimented by the attractive man and then reporting the unattractive man for the same compliment. That’s it. It doesn’t show anything more or less than that. I does not show that either man ever complimented that woman before or after the incident it portrays. Yet some of my gender are projecting what they think happened before the interaction or what they think will happen after it, onto the meaning of the comic. All based on their own biased views. I doubt very highly whether the creator of the comic meant it to convey what you think it conveys Eva. Just like my last post to you on your other article, this is another example of you projecting your own bias onto a situation and calling your conclusions fact.

The fact is first that the above illustration does happen and has happened for years. Just as sexual harassment has been a prevalent behavior in the workplace since long before I worked my first job, there has also been the undeniable fact that attractive guys get away with harassing and flirting behavior simply because some of my gender are flattered by their attention, simply because they are attractive. While they are not flattered by ugly men acting the same way to them and are more prone to report them rather than the attractive men for the same behavior. This is a cliché I know, but how do you think a cliché becomes a cliché? Because it has happened so often that it has become common place. The fact is that this comic shows just how shallow and vindictive some of my gender can be.

I, as an older feminist woman, may not like the truth the comic portrays, but I am not going to deny that it happens exactly as portrayed either. I have seen it, I know some of my friends, both young and older who actually exhibit that behavior and claim pride in it. But I am not going to sit back and justify it or agree with women like Eva who try to. Sorry dear, but this article is way farther off base than your other one I replied to. I think you got more than just growing up to do Eva. Perhaps you need to take a closer theraputic view of whatever trauma you might have in your past that drives you to try and justify both this article's subject and your misguided views from the other one of your articles I replied to. If you cannot do that than I suggest you engage the services of a much more experienced therapist in the field of psychology to guide you through such a theraputic examination.

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Jason
5/7/2024 02:58:04 pm

What a wonderful response Elizabeth. Thank you for standing up to her gaslighting and actually being honest.

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Keith
2/19/2025 05:10:22 pm

Elizabeth, thank you for displaying such remarkable integrity, ma’am. I make no reservation whatsoever when I say you’re a hero. Truly.

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Mike
7/24/2021 07:28:46 pm

Well I got a notification that someone replied to me here, but it looks like my original post got deleted. Peculiar. No worries, I’ll just repost.

Outstanding points Elizabeth, and exactly what I said in my previous reply that got deleted. The author states that this comic was really intended to give the message that:

“The comic clearly and accurately points out, if you continue flirting with a coworker who isn't interested in you, it is sexual harassment.”

As you said Elizabeth, the comic doesn’t show any “continued” flirting after, or even any flirting prior to the interaction in it. It shows just that one interaction from each guy, making the same compliment, with that same woman and how her reaction is different based on nothing more than the appearance of each man.

Elizabeth, you were also right about the comic creator not conveying the meaning in this comic that Eva thought he was. The original comic was drawn by Max Garcia of Sunny Street. Max drew it back in 2013 and like much of his other comics and memes it was made to illustrate a double standard. He did several comics like it, and some even illustrated double standards that penalized women too. This one though was meant to illustrate the double standard it shows, and Max even confirms this through his work. All one has to do, is google search him to see. You are also right that a lot of women seem to be using this to project their views on to it. They add the extra narrative that Eva does here when there is nothing about the comic to support their conclusion. Women like Eva, and those who try to justify the above comic subject, don't like having their shallowness highlighted in such a way

Thank you Elizabeth for having the courage to speak the truth here. It's not often that I see older feminist women like you taking their younger colleagues like Eva to task over their more discriminatory views. So thank you for that.

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Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 07:52:05 pm

Thank you Mike. I appreciate the kind words. I looked up Max Garcia, and I see that you're right. He created the comic and he meant it to convey exactly what we both said. I wonder if Max knows how his comic has been misused by people like Eva to justify the very double standard he was trying to speak out against by his comic. Just from my own experience, I have seen it posted on various sites by women like Eva atleast a dozen times in just the last 2 years alone. God only knows how often it's been misused in total since 2013 when he created it.

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Eva Glasrud link
7/26/2021 09:07:36 am

I think it's hilarious that the artist intended to whine about some perceived victimhood, but instead he beautifully illustrated the exact opposite point! I saw a similarly hilarious one recently where some trans activist was like, "If TERFs don't want to share bathrooms, maybe we should separate THEM into their own bathrooms." And I was like.... Yes. This is what feminists are saying. We want our own bathrooms that are separate from male bathrooms.

Always very funny when this happens.

Eva Glasrud link
7/26/2021 09:08:37 am

Mike, if something you wrote "mysteriously" got deleted, it was probably because you were replying to yourself under a different name and it got marked as spam, and/or it contained ad hominems, which are for morons. Double check the notification and make sure "Mike" is the name you were posting under... :P

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Mike
7/26/2021 10:57:28 am

LMAO smh. Replying to yourself under another name? How old are you, 13? Let me let you in on a little secret,.....no one does that, except maybe people like you who think others are doing it to you. But by all means entertain whatever fantasies you like. It's your imagination and your blog.

As to ad hominems, I don't really care who uses them and who doesn't. I always relay facts with my points as I did here about Max. But if you're worried about ad hominems you might want to check your own writing. You seem to rely on them yourself more often then you realize.

I find it completely unsurprising that you show yourself to be bigoted against trans people, most especially trans females by your claim to being terf. Which I might add that you volunteered completely unprovoked and off topic in reply to Elizabeth. Which speaks volumes about who you are and how much hate you have. I bet you wouldn't dare tell a trans female to their face how much you hate them though. Most people like you wouldn't be brave enough to. All that hate you carry around inside you is going to stain your soul Eva. Good luck with that. You're going to need it.

Eva Glasrud link
7/27/2021 08:07:55 am

Mike... this is my blog. I see the information and IP addresses of every comment that goes up here. Deny it all you want, but I know when people are replying to themselves.

Check your reading comprehension skills, too, though, bro. I never claimed to be a TERF, nor do I "hate trans people." I was very clearly quoting an activist who, like the artist who drew this comic, made the opposite point than the one he/she/whatever was trying to make...

Practicing the reading comprehension thing might help with some of the other stuff you struggle with, because it seems like a lot of this went straight over your head.

Anonyme
7/27/2021 07:51:37 pm

Well "Eva/Joe" I could not pass up the irony in your posts on this topic without commenting. Posting under yourself? You and "Joe" do it all the time, so I find it very funny that you even mention it happening with other people.

I think you missed your calling girl, ironic comedy is your schtick. I also have to hand it to your artistry though. Some work in clay, others with paint, but you work with hypocrisy. You are trying to tell Mike, and I guess the rest of us that you don't hate trans people and that you aren't a TERF. You said that to us all right after you posted your own words saying this:

"I saw a similarly hilarious one recently where some trans activist was like, "If TERFs don't want to share bathrooms, maybe we should separate THEM into their own bathrooms." And I was like.... Yes. This is what feminists are saying. We want our own bathrooms that are separate from male bathrooms."

Maybe you didn't realize your fruedian slip here "Eva". Let me point it out for you. You say feminists, like you I presume since you said "we" in refernce to it, want your own bathrooms seperate from male bathrooms. You seem to forget that trans females are females. That's who they are and that's what they identify as. So as the females they are they are entitled to use the same female bathrooms any other female uses. ,For you to still misgender them as male and expect them to use the male bathroom is the very foundation of the Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist mindset. Ergo you are a TERF. Your post here reveals your trans bigotry and your denial of it further proves it, and you didn't even realize it when you typed it.. Funny. Can't wait to link that post of yours to a couple trans ladies I know and some of their activist friends. TTFN

Zeph
10/30/2021 04:08:21 am

1, Eva, you make some good points as usual. In a situation of ongoing interactions, reciprocity is a key element, and it's important to pay attention to social clues. And Joe makes a good point that a woman may interpret "looking good" as a comment on her body, and inappropriate (sometimes).

2. However, I think you may be injecting a bit too much of your own invented backstory into this particular comic, which exists more in your head than in the illustration itself. You appear to be creating a narrative of repeated interaction which was not reciprocal, which I do not see the artist as having drawn.

Another indication comes from your interpreting the shoulders of the woman as varying how much she's facing her screen. I really cannot see that difference in the drawing, I doubt the artist drew the two images to show that difference, and I suspect that most viewers would not see it that way unless by suggestion. Again, I think you are imagining the shoulder thing in concordance with the message you are trying to project onto it.

3. It's less a matter that "this comic means the opposite of what you think" than "I can come up with a somewhat idiosyncratic interpretation in which the intended meaning gets reversed". Yes you can, but that may be saying more about the point you really want to make, than how the creator and most viewers understand the comic. It's kind of shoehorning the message onto the comic as an excuse to make a point you are fond of.

Since your points are often good, I can forgive that. But still I notice it.

4. The artist was apparently trying to make the point that sometimes "harassment" is very subjective, and depends on whether the person speaking is attractive. You actually do acknowledge that, and kind of dismiss it as "life is not fair, yes attractive people get away with stuff that unattractive people might get in trouble for, get over it".

That's not really a good basis from which to say that it means the opposite of what a viewer thinks. The artist is saying that this is a double standard and you are acknowledging that you also take that message from it, but easily dismiss it, and then discover that the comic REALLY means something else, if only you hold it up to the light just right and squint hard.

I'm not disagreeing with your intended message, but I don't think there's a lot of irony about reversed messages here, at least that translates to other people who do not project so much invented backstory onto it.

As usual, you stimulate thought. Thanks.

(And I sure am glad that I'm not trying to form new romantic relationships nowadays!)

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Eva Glasrud link
10/30/2021 11:41:26 am

1. There IS repeated interaction. The guy knows her name. (Presumably. It's definitely even creepier if he knows she is Susan but they have not met.) The people work together. One way or another, there IS repeated interaction. If you're going to compliment a woman's body at work, you are breaking social convention and risking being reported. YOU are the one who chose to take that risk, so I don't feel sorry for you when you face the consequences.

Even if it is the very first time you have done it, there will be repeated interactions with the person, because you freaking work together, and she will always remember the weird comment you made about their body.

These things don't happen in a vacuum.

2. See above. This is not the first time they have spoken. Because they work together, there IS backstory, and there IS futurestory. The woman shouldn't feel uncomfortable every time she sees creepy guy in the lunchroom because he thought it was appropriate to come to her cubicle to make a comment about her body.

The guy in the first panel took a risk, and he was lucky (well -- not lucky, exactly; because they have interacted before, he can decide whether to make this comment based on previous interactions -- having basic human empathy and good social skills isn't lucky, because they are things we choose to practice and develop, or not), because she reciprocated.

I'm not sure what image you're looking at, but the woman's reaction is VERY different between the two panels, and her distress is very clear.

3. Perhaps I did come up with a different meaning from the artist's based on reality. Most likely, the artist was having himself a little pity party when he drew this. Doesn't mean what he drew can't mean the opposite of what he thinks it does. He knows enough to know Susan is distressed in the second panel, though, which means he's PART way to the truth of the matter. Making comments about women's bodies at work CAN be very upsetting and stressful for those you target.

4. Again, I think it probably means the opposite of what the artist thought it meant, too. Just because he's drawn his entitled male, pity party perspective, doesn't mean he's depicting truth.

The truth is that flirting was reciprocated in the first panel, and not reciprocated in the second one, and I don't think there's any way to argue that.

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Peter
1/31/2022 05:03:17 pm

Since women will by definition find me creepy - and attraction would never be mutual - I’ll just take your advice and leave all women alone. This is not helplessness - it’s my accepting reality that no amount of practice would get me to the point where any woman would welcome even a social conversation with me.

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Milos
2/1/2022 07:13:06 pm

“Moreover, as I wrote in "Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity, anyone who claims that "the exact same same behavior" is acceptable when an attractive man does it, but is "creepy" or "harassment" when an unattractive man does it, is completely ignoring the woman's agency in this interaction.”

Only if one doesn’t understand that the woman decides which guy is attractive to her. Her agency is exercised through her choice and her follow up actions based on her choice.

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Peter Stigander
7/6/2022 04:46:39 am

Chill everyone. There is nothing wrong with finding one person more attractive than another. The joke/criticism here is that there is a punishment for being unattractive. The two men are doing the exact same thing, that's the point.

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js
7/14/2022 04:23:39 pm

There are legally defined definitions of workplace harassment. It does have to be unwanted and usually repeated. Since in most workplace situations one would have no way to know if a flirtation was wanted, workplaces are maybe not where one should be doing this. Also even if it's wanted, if it's disruptive to one's coworkers it's not likely to be looked on favorable, because that is "hostile work environment"

Everyone who has had an office job understands the rules.
In fact has probably undergone yearly training on the actual laws.

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Pavel
7/10/2023 01:47:47 pm

As a man, it would be unpleasant for me if an old, ugly, dirty woman molested me in a vulgar way.
And I had such an experience in my life. Even had the experience of homosexual harassment.
But I didn't resent it as an insult. Because this is not an insult, but rather a human error. I do not consider these people "creepy" - I'm sorry that they did not find reciprocity and it's nice that someone finds me attractive.
Question: why is the girl in the picture so angry?! Why is she offended?
The story that she was raped and that the second guy has been stalkering her for years is not necessary to invent.

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Cm
2/8/2024 06:30:42 pm

Of course it's only reciprocated when the women thinks the guy is hot. Duh!!

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Alex23601
8/13/2024 11:29:09 am

So this turned from this is sexual harassment when the guy isn't hot to this is sexual harassment when the guy isn't hot and is autistic and on the neurodivergent spectrum by having a hard time on grasping social cues immediately or at all. I'm a late diagnosed autistic with ADHD and i have many times in the past been treated by people I had feelings for without any kindness or even like a monster because I cannot for the love of me grasp contemporary flirt tactics, causing me to behave clumsily and without me being able to grasp social cues easily. This turned even worse by the fact that I'm extremely self aware causing me to understand that people behave differently around me. I have felt ostracized and unable to find anyone who truly cares about me the slightest and this has caused me many problems in my life. This all would have been fixed if all those people I had feelings for gave me a chance and opened up to me about how they like other people to say to them. You know, being treated like a normal person, but instead i have to deal everyday with this behavior just because im a bit unattractive and unable to grasp social cues easily. Causing me even to be afraid of opening to people or even expressing what I want to say. The truth that this comic expresses to me is the main problem that we neurodivergent people deal on a regular basis when it comes to just being a little different on how to express and to say that its normal to call sexual harassment and ostracize anyone that isn't able to grasp contemporary flirt tactics is anything but extremely infuriating.

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Arthur
8/27/2024 02:05:42 pm

Beautiful response!!!!👍💯🎯✅ Made more beautiful and poignant coming from a woman.

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Docwyoming
9/13/2024 08:40:33 am

This has to be the stupidest take on this cartoon I have ever seen on this comic. The entire point is that the second man's approach is not accepted in the first place because of his appearance. That was the intent of the artist.

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Hiring Displaced Talent link
1/13/2025 09:05:03 pm

The "double standards" comic often highlights societal hypocrisies, but many misunderstand its true message. It’s a critique of how both genders are held to unfair and unrealistic expectations, not just a commentary on one-sided inequality.

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nah
3/20/2025 08:22:51 pm

Holy shit this is the dumbest thing I have possibly ever read.

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Sheila Donnell
4/2/2025 03:53:37 pm

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