That Overused Comic About "Double Standards" Actually Means the OPPOSITE Of What Dudes Think It Does2/22/2021
This stupid comic! Three different people posted this on my social media this morning in unrelated discussions about "unfair double standards."
Which is why I feel morally obligated to inform you: if you actually look at it, this comic means the opposite of what you think it does. What you think it means, after a quick and sloppy glance, is that "it's only creepy if the guy isn't hot." However, if you actually look at the comic, the message is quite clear: FLIRTING IS ONLY FUN WHEN IT IS RECIPROCATED. In the first image, Susan is delighted that the man is flirting with her. They have a great energy. They're making great eye contact and smiling at each other. Her shoulders are squared more towards him, and less towards her computer. In the second image, Susan looks disgusted and horrified. Her body is squared to her computer, because she is working and clearly doesn't want to be interrupted. And some dude that she clearly isn't into is complimenting her body. The comic clearly and accurately points out, if you continue flirting with a coworker who isn't interested in you, it is sexual harassment. This isn't a "double standard" — it's common sense. Flirting is only fun when it is mutual and reciprocated. Otherwise, it's creepy at best. Moreover, as I wrote in "Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity, anyone who claims that "the exact same same behavior" is acceptable when an attractive man does it, but is "creepy" or "harassment" when an unattractive man does it, is completely ignoring the woman's agency in this interction. Women aren't chatbots. They don't have programmed responses for identical phrases. They have agency. They have preferences. They have situational awareness. They are not the passive recipients of male action. If a woman finds a man attractive, then his flirting behavior is NOT identical to that of a man the woman doesn't find attractive. The attractive man is engaging in a mutual and fun flirtation. The unattractive man is creepily hitting on someone who isn't interested. (And, as a side note: If a Girl You Were Hitting On Was Rude to You, It's Probably Your Fault.) I mean — look at poor Susan! Imagine if you made that face at someone and he just kept gushing about your body and hitting on you — almost as though he didn't give a shit he was making you uncomfortable. So what is an unattractive man to do? Here is some advice I shared in What Men Don't Understand When They Complain, "It's Only Creepy If The Guy Isn't Hot": A decent rule of thumb is, "If you're not SURE the answer is yes, don't ask her out."
Obviously flirting is more likely to be mutual when a man is attractive — especially when it comes to someone you've just met or don't know well. If all I know about you is what you look like, what can I judge you by except what you look like? So if you consider yourself to be unattractive, then obviously your approach to flirting needs to be different from that of a man who is considered attractive. Is life fair? No. But are women attracted to men who constantly whine about how life isn't fair? Also no. Women are not attracted to men who feel like helpless victims. Women are not attracted to men who feel less control over the world around them than a child. If you're not getting anywhere with women, there's a decent chance that your helpless attitude — which is going to show, whether you discuss it with her or not — is the real reason why. So accept that you look how you look — then take control. (Again, no woman is attracted to helplessness.) Work on your social skills. Work on paying attention to women's social cues and responses to your flirting. Take the time to get to know someone before you compliment her body or indicate you want to have sex with her. Be patient. You might want to check out The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism, as it will help you learn some of the charisma other people use in social situations. And remember: the idea that women are chatbots who are obligated to treat you a certain way, whether they find you attractive or not, is, itself, a very creepy idea. Obliterate it from your mind and remember that women are people, just like men.
35 Comments
Joe G
4/12/2021 10:05:32 pm
Just came to gloat on making the quote; thanks for highlighting my comment.
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Chris
4/24/2021 04:17:42 pm
If this only happened in the context of dating it would be at least understandable from an empathetic point of view.
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Joe
5/16/2021 02:18:32 pm
Lookism (discrimination based on attractiveness) definitely exists, but similar to our discussion on the other post I think you're giving it way too much weight. Certainly life can be easier if you're attractive, but I get the impression from you that you believe ugliness is an almost insurmountable barrier. I know plenty of conventionally unattractive people who're living happy lives, are employed, and loved.
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Valerie Edwards
6/19/2021 10:06:12 am
Do young single men want to be hit on all the time by greasy balding toothless older women who reek of cigarette smoke who won't take no for an answer and don't know what personal boundaries are? My guess is probably not. You're a hypocrite if you believe that young women must put up with ugly old men who are extremely persistent and be "nice" to them no matter how uncomfortable it makes us feel but you don't think that men should put up with the same thing. Men are not entitled to our time and attention and we have no obligation to be kind and gentle to men who make us feel uncomfortable. It is quite evident that men have no idea what women have to go through on a daily basis and that a lot of men lack sympathy with our struggles as women. Women have been seriously injured and killed for turning men down that they were not interested in. Men don't have to worry about that because they don't face those same pressures.
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Valerie Edwards
6/19/2021 10:27:36 am
There's a terror group made up of angry embittered men called "incels" who angrily rage at women for not finding them attractive and have been responsible for several acts of terroristic mass violence against women in the past few years. Every women out there has to regularly fear coming across an "incel" type person because are the kinds of men who will kill women for not being kind and pleasant enough to them. Men don't have to worry about this because so called "unfuckable women" aren't forming terrorist groups and going on killing sprees to target men who aren't into them sexually or romantically. Obviously there are a few good men out there (though they're a tiny minority) who aren't violent misogynists and who won't kill us for turning them down but a significant number of men are misogynists and we have to be on our guard all the time so that the creepy violent men out there won't kill or seriously injure us.
JC
8/13/2021 04:35:10 pm
Exactly! These days there's no telling what will happen if you say "no" Men have a hard enough time telling other men "no when they're asked for money or rides or favors from other men so I can imagine how it is for a woman to say no to someone that can easily take their life or seriously injure them. You can thank all the quacks, dating coaches and snake oil salesmen for preaching all that junk science to these guys that if they're persistent then they'll eventually win her over with "game" or "personality". The most dangerous half truth sold to the average American male is that "inner beauty" is the only thing that fuels a woman's passion or interest and they get irate when nothing they do ever works and they're sorry they've ever gotten involved with her in the first place.
Hitch
12/18/2021 06:31:48 pm
Yep, most of these men that make women uncomfortable have no self awareness and sense of boundaries and sometimes they know in their heart that they mean no harm but the women they're making uncomfortable and the rest of the world doesn't know that. These guys don't realize that they are exactly the guy that every parent warns their kids to stay away from.
John
12/15/2021 12:51:39 pm
Unfortunately the ones in the underclass are the peons of society, and when you're at the lowest rank, there is no right or wrong, just opinions and our opinions are not welcome, that's why we're not allowed to speak up for ourselves. We're just supposed to do what we're told and not ask for or expect anything in return. There is no representation on the horizon for unattractive people.
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Sheikh Yerbooty
5/1/2021 09:44:05 pm
>>Women are not attracted to men who feel like helpless victims. Women are not attracted to men who feel less control over the world around them than a child. If you're not getting anywhere with women, there's a decent chance that your helpless attitude — which is going to show, whether you discuss it with her or not — is the real reason why.<<
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JC
8/8/2021 08:30:02 am
Well said! Society views weak and bitter men as pond scum and these men are pretty much put in the same category as rapists and pedophiles.
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Will
2/6/2023 11:57:45 am
Honestly I see this a lot, people complaining about ugly people being bitter or unhappy and them not liking this. Well no s*** they're f****** bitter and unhappy, if you'd been treated like subhuman garbage your entire life because you were born a certain way I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed off yourself.
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ChAnt
3/10/2024 02:15:29 pm
Imagine being such a loser you have to project your own ideas onto the people. In an ideal world all of you fucking masculinity copers would tortured to death.
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Valerie Edwards
6/19/2021 09:48:57 am
Thank you for saying this. A lot of men don't seem to realise that the main thing that distinguishes creepy interactions from non creepy interactions is that creepy interactions feel forced, uncomfortable, and unwanted for the person on the receiving end of them. Friendly non creepy interactions (including flirting) are mutually enjoyable for everyone involved and don't feel forced for anyone. It must also be said that unusual "ugly" physical features aren't the only thing that can make someone appear creepy either; a good looking guy with poor posture, body language/ tone of voice that doesn't match what he's saying, and generally poor social skills is also quite likely to come off as creepy when interacting with others. Context can also matter since guys who flirt with women who they have economic/legal/educational power over can really wreck the person who they are flirting with life over if they refuse their advances (such as what happened with Brie Larson and the TSA agent who hit on her at the airport). For the guys who will read this never flirt with a woman going about her day on the street (especially at night), a woman wearing headphones, a woman on public transport, a woman walking to her car in a carpark, or anywhere else where approaching someone could come across as dangerous and where approaching someone for a date doesn't fit the social context. Women really don't like it when you do this and it's more likely to get you pepper sprayed than you getting a date. I'd recommend checking out the men's dating blogger Dr. Nerdlove for helpful tips on how to approach women and get us interested without coming across as a creep. https://www.doctornerdlove.com/
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Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 07:14:18 pm
Now this article is just beyond ridiculous Eva. I have seen this same comic on bored panda and a couple other sites and it is always getting reposted. The most bizarre thing is I see it being posted about more often by women like Eva here, than I do men complaining about the comic’s subject matter.
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Jason
5/7/2024 02:58:04 pm
What a wonderful response Elizabeth. Thank you for standing up to her gaslighting and actually being honest.
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Mike
7/24/2021 07:28:46 pm
Well I got a notification that someone replied to me here, but it looks like my original post got deleted. Peculiar. No worries, I’ll just repost.
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Elizabeth G
7/24/2021 07:52:05 pm
Thank you Mike. I appreciate the kind words. I looked up Max Garcia, and I see that you're right. He created the comic and he meant it to convey exactly what we both said. I wonder if Max knows how his comic has been misused by people like Eva to justify the very double standard he was trying to speak out against by his comic. Just from my own experience, I have seen it posted on various sites by women like Eva atleast a dozen times in just the last 2 years alone. God only knows how often it's been misused in total since 2013 when he created it.
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7/26/2021 09:07:36 am
I think it's hilarious that the artist intended to whine about some perceived victimhood, but instead he beautifully illustrated the exact opposite point! I saw a similarly hilarious one recently where some trans activist was like, "If TERFs don't want to share bathrooms, maybe we should separate THEM into their own bathrooms." And I was like.... Yes. This is what feminists are saying. We want our own bathrooms that are separate from male bathrooms. 7/26/2021 09:08:37 am
Mike, if something you wrote "mysteriously" got deleted, it was probably because you were replying to yourself under a different name and it got marked as spam, and/or it contained ad hominems, which are for morons. Double check the notification and make sure "Mike" is the name you were posting under... :P
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Mike
7/26/2021 10:57:28 am
LMAO smh. Replying to yourself under another name? How old are you, 13? Let me let you in on a little secret,.....no one does that, except maybe people like you who think others are doing it to you. But by all means entertain whatever fantasies you like. It's your imagination and your blog. 7/27/2021 08:07:55 am
Mike... this is my blog. I see the information and IP addresses of every comment that goes up here. Deny it all you want, but I know when people are replying to themselves.
Anonyme
7/27/2021 07:51:37 pm
Well "Eva/Joe" I could not pass up the irony in your posts on this topic without commenting. Posting under yourself? You and "Joe" do it all the time, so I find it very funny that you even mention it happening with other people.
Zeph
10/30/2021 04:08:21 am
1, Eva, you make some good points as usual. In a situation of ongoing interactions, reciprocity is a key element, and it's important to pay attention to social clues. And Joe makes a good point that a woman may interpret "looking good" as a comment on her body, and inappropriate (sometimes).
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10/30/2021 11:41:26 am
1. There IS repeated interaction. The guy knows her name. (Presumably. It's definitely even creepier if he knows she is Susan but they have not met.) The people work together. One way or another, there IS repeated interaction. If you're going to compliment a woman's body at work, you are breaking social convention and risking being reported. YOU are the one who chose to take that risk, so I don't feel sorry for you when you face the consequences.
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Peter
1/31/2022 05:03:17 pm
Since women will by definition find me creepy - and attraction would never be mutual - I’ll just take your advice and leave all women alone. This is not helplessness - it’s my accepting reality that no amount of practice would get me to the point where any woman would welcome even a social conversation with me.
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Milos
2/1/2022 07:13:06 pm
“Moreover, as I wrote in "Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity, anyone who claims that "the exact same same behavior" is acceptable when an attractive man does it, but is "creepy" or "harassment" when an unattractive man does it, is completely ignoring the woman's agency in this interaction.”
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Peter Stigander
7/6/2022 04:46:39 am
Chill everyone. There is nothing wrong with finding one person more attractive than another. The joke/criticism here is that there is a punishment for being unattractive. The two men are doing the exact same thing, that's the point.
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js
7/14/2022 04:23:39 pm
There are legally defined definitions of workplace harassment. It does have to be unwanted and usually repeated. Since in most workplace situations one would have no way to know if a flirtation was wanted, workplaces are maybe not where one should be doing this. Also even if it's wanted, if it's disruptive to one's coworkers it's not likely to be looked on favorable, because that is "hostile work environment"
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Pavel
7/10/2023 01:47:47 pm
As a man, it would be unpleasant for me if an old, ugly, dirty woman molested me in a vulgar way.
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Cm
2/8/2024 06:30:42 pm
Of course it's only reciprocated when the women thinks the guy is hot. Duh!!
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Alex23601
8/13/2024 11:29:09 am
So this turned from this is sexual harassment when the guy isn't hot to this is sexual harassment when the guy isn't hot and is autistic and on the neurodivergent spectrum by having a hard time on grasping social cues immediately or at all. I'm a late diagnosed autistic with ADHD and i have many times in the past been treated by people I had feelings for without any kindness or even like a monster because I cannot for the love of me grasp contemporary flirt tactics, causing me to behave clumsily and without me being able to grasp social cues easily. This turned even worse by the fact that I'm extremely self aware causing me to understand that people behave differently around me. I have felt ostracized and unable to find anyone who truly cares about me the slightest and this has caused me many problems in my life. This all would have been fixed if all those people I had feelings for gave me a chance and opened up to me about how they like other people to say to them. You know, being treated like a normal person, but instead i have to deal everyday with this behavior just because im a bit unattractive and unable to grasp social cues easily. Causing me even to be afraid of opening to people or even expressing what I want to say. The truth that this comic expresses to me is the main problem that we neurodivergent people deal on a regular basis when it comes to just being a little different on how to express and to say that its normal to call sexual harassment and ostracize anyone that isn't able to grasp contemporary flirt tactics is anything but extremely infuriating.
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Arthur
8/27/2024 02:05:42 pm
Beautiful response!!!!👍💯🎯✅ Made more beautiful and poignant coming from a woman.
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Docwyoming
9/13/2024 08:40:33 am
This has to be the stupidest take on this cartoon I have ever seen on this comic. The entire point is that the second man's approach is not accepted in the first place because of his appearance. That was the intent of the artist.
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1/13/2025 09:05:03 pm
The "double standards" comic often highlights societal hypocrisies, but many misunderstand its true message. It’s a critique of how both genders are held to unfair and unrealistic expectations, not just a commentary on one-sided inequality.
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