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"It is a happy talent to know how to play."

Why It's Sexist to Expect Women to Clean, But Not Men to Pay

4/26/2023

25 Comments

 
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​Image: The Happy Talent on Instagram

It's a question that comes up all the time, but shouldn't. I am willing to answer it yet again, because certain social skills are slow to develop in some men, and I believe the advice that follows will help such men not only realize some of the basic, common courtesy around dating, but also reframe the way they see all social interactions, causing a positive impact in all parts of their life.

My hope is for them to read this and learn that interpersonal interactions are not isolated behaviors that exist in a vacuum. They are part of a dynamic, two​-person exchange with a lifetime of history and context. 

The post started with this question: 

If expecting a woman to cook/clean *because she’s a woman* is misogyny, then wouldn’t expecting chivalry from a man *because he’s the man* be misandry?

Question details included:

> If a man publicly says it’s a woman’s job to cook, clean, and care for the children, there’s a very good chance that most women would consider that misogyny. If we turn the tables around, and a woman says it’s a man’s job to pay for a first date, to take her out, initiate the milestones, open her doors, pay for things, etc. …is that not misandry, using the same logic? In both scenarios, each gender is being assigned a strict rigid task simply because of their sex/gender. However mainstream society only seems to call out the first scenario as sexist. And most women I’ve come across, to at least some degree expect those behaviors from men because they’re the man. Are most women sexist to at least some degree, if we hold them to the same standards as men?

There are a few things going on, here, that indicate an unhealthy, victimhood mindset and interpersonal dysfunction. The man's weak grasp of women's autonomy almost indicates autism or a similar developmental thing. 

Let's break it down. 

> says it’s a woman’s job to cook, clean, and care for the children, there’s a very good chance that most women (and probably a huge portion of men) would consider that misogyny.

Yes, because people are free to choose what job they want in life and relationships. Some women are happy to cook and clean, and that's great! Some women have no interest. That's also great!

It's pretty gross and backwards to expect ALL women to cook and clean for men because of their reproductive systems. We think with our brains, not our... whatever body part you think is responsible for cleaning. 


> If we turn the tables around, and a woman says it’s a man’s job to pay for a first date,


Actually, originally, it was the woman's job to pay for the first date, as dating took the form of courtships and early dates happened in the woman's home, where she/her family would feed and entertain the man.

THEN social norms changed, and it became more common for the man to take the woman out. Because men had earning power and women had none, men planned the dates and paid for them.

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Want to know more? Check out Marriage, a History.

NOW the expectation is that whoever initiated the date pays for it, UNLESS THEY CLEARLY STATED before the person accepted the date, how much they thought it would cost.

This is basic common sense and courtesy.

What you may not realize is that everyone has a different budget for entertainment. It would be awful if I accepted a date with you, then you took me somewhere expensive, and expected me to pay, throwing off my budget for the rest of the month.

Obviously, it would be good if people in the US felt more comfortable talking about money. But let's be real, OP. If a woman asked about your salary before accepting a date with you, you'd go on Reddit whine about what a gold digger she is. Don't lie. 

You don't want her asking you about your salary, and you probably shouldn't be asking her about her budget yet, either. What you CAN do, is, WHEN you initiate the date, if you expect me to pay for my half, TELL ME how much you expect the date to cost BEFORE I accept or decline your offer. 

Since certain social skills may have been slow to develop in you, I will give you some templates you can use for this conversation: 

  • I'd love to take you to Cirque du Soleil this Friday. The tickets are $45, unless you want to sit in the front. Then it's $85. 

This gives her the chance to say, "No, Friday won't work," without saying, "Actually, I am poorer than you and I can't afford that."

  • For food, I was thinking something casual and fast, like Burrito Shop -- the bowls are about $8 -- and when we're done, I will teach you to skateboard.

This is a date that's pretty affordable -- and it souds more fun that sitting and looking at each other in a more expensive restaurant, anyway. 

  • I'm not sure what your expectations are about who pays for the date, but I prefer to go Dutch the first date.

See? It's really not that hard. 

And it's not about the man paying because mISAnDrYYYYYy!!

It's about the man being a big boy who knows how to use his bog boy words.

Summary: if you're going to get your panties in a bunch about having to pay for a date, you need to either:

  1. Learn to use your big boy words
  2. Choose a date that is more within your budget so the money isn't such a major issue for you
​
Also worth noting: probably the reason you're single and not getting many dates is because not only are you insecure about money (a repulsive trait for someone you don't yet know -- unless someone is very wealthy, they're not going to want to start something new with someone who's not financially stable; personally, I make enough money to support an outrageously fun and amazing lifestyle for myself, but I can't really afford to subsidize another person; any man who wants to join me would have to be an equal partner, and early signs of financial instability would be red flaggy, unless there were a really good reason for said instability, like that he's chasing a huge moonshot of a dream that just might come true, because that's actually kind of hot)...

But you're also kind of entitled. You seem to have forgotten that YOU have asked HER for the pleasure of HER company.

SHE has AGREED to give YOU one of the only 52 Saturday nights she's going to have this entire year.

And you're sitting here bitching because you initiated the date and are therefore expected to pay?

Instead of whining and feeling wounded and victimized, maybe be appreciative of the fact that SHE has agreed to give YOU something of hers that is WAY more valuable than money: her time and attention.
​
You asked her out and she said yes. You should be excited, appreciative, and grateful. If you're not... why did you ask this woman out? 
​
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​If these thoughts are something you struggle with, I highly recommend The Charisma Myth. It could change your life. 

> initiate the milestones,

Yes, because stereotypically, men are the ones who are slower and more reluctant to commit, and when women initiate milestones, people call them crazy.

> open her doors

Again, if you're going to whine about having to show appreciation and care and affection toward the woman who just agreed to give you the most precious thing she has -- her time -- you're unlikely to get a second date.

Women just are not into woundedness, stinginess, and victimhood. 

I'm pretty sure it's a hardwired preference. Women who liked woundedness, stinginess, and victimhood mated with men who were helpless, then they and their offspring died at the first sign of a drought or famine or bad hunting season. Only women who preferred men who were generous, autonomous, and confident in their ability to manipulate the world around them survived.

Women who chose men who didn't seem to cherish and appreciate them... died.

If you like her, you should WANT to open the door. It does't even take extra time or cost you anything!

And, in case you care, the reason for this and many similar traditions of men helping women is because of women's smaller, weaker size, paired with difficult fashions (hoop skirts, high heels, short skirts, corsets, etc.) over the years.

It's courtesy, not misandry.

> a strict rigid task simply because of their sex

It is very silly to compare spending two seconds opening a door to asking someone to spend an afternoon cleaning up a mess that isn't theirs.

Especially since, in the modern world, most women work, which was not true when the tradition of women cooking and cleaning started. (If you don't work outside the home, it makes much more sense that you would take care of the home. I'm sure you would agree.)

Within a relationship, a couple can agree to whatever norms and roles they want. It is fine to expect the man to always pay, if that expectation is clear and mutually agreed upon. It is fine to expect the woman to be a stay-at-home mom, if that is a value both members share and agree to.

But it's backwards and stupid to demand that all people follow YOUR norms, and your weird desire to control others might be another reason you're still single. 

***

So. Men whose panties are in a bunch about paying for dates or holding doors for women. 

My advice to you -- advice that I truly think could change your life and end your loneliness -- is: 

1. Use your big boy words to communicate your expectations about money, values, and whatever else is important in a relationship. 

2. Cognitively reframe the way you think about dating. Women are not into creepy entitlement and control issues. If you feel ENTITLED to our time, rather than GRATEFUL for it, we're going to notice, we're not going to like you, and we're not going to agree to see you again. 

Hopefully this helps. 

For more, check out If a Girl You Were Hitting On Was Rude to You, It's Probably Your Fault and "Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity.
25 Comments
Dan
5/14/2023 12:10:47 pm

Happy Mother's Day, Eva!

Oh, that's right, you're not a mother, because you can't find a guy who will tolerate you and your weird, mouthy, snarky, obnoxious, grandiose, know-it-all, sanctimonious, blowhard personality.

Enjoy your furry children!

Reply
Eva Glasrud link
5/16/2023 05:36:54 am

Ahhh, look which of my weird online stalkers made it past the spam filter! Good job, Dan, and thank you for the literal LOL. You insult women the way a guy who's never actually met a woman before, but has read about them on incel forums and reddit, would. It's absolutely adorable.

Sorry to hear about your mommy issues. I didn't realize how deep it went. Can't say that I blame you. I'm sure once your mom realized what a creepy, angry little beta you are, she wished she'd never gotten pregnant. I know you're tempted to blame her for everything that's wrong in your life, but just remember: interpersonal interactions are bidirectional. Sure, your mom clearly doesn't want you. But, honey. There's a reason, and that reason comes directly from you.

Hope this helps!!! I should start charging you for all the free advice.

Reply
Zane
5/23/2023 02:52:27 pm

I would say keep spanking him, but he would like it.

Dan
9/9/2023 08:09:03 am

Zane,

She isn't going to touch you, my guy. Your pandering, notwithstanding.

Michelle
10/25/2023 02:25:23 pm

You do realize not everyone wants to be a mother, right? Like, performing a basic biological function - conceiving and birthing a child - is something nearly every woman can do, with no skill required. It's not exactly an accomplishment. So your attempt to flex on or shame Eva falls completely flat in this instance. Kind of a weak and overused trope; I hope you can do better next time.

Also, most women would rather stick their hand in a blender and hit the "frappe" button than have a kid with someone like you. So.

Reply
Dan
10/27/2023 08:32:30 pm

Yes, "Michelle," I do realize that not every woman wants to be a mother. That was not the point of my comment, you dolt. The point was that being a mother—better yet, a good parent—requires an inherent skill set necessary to successfully raise a child. I would like to think that these skills include a sense of humility, patience, selflessness, commitment, compromise, and the ability to show restraint and not spout off snarky, condescending language that can psychologically damage a person, especially a child.

Eva does not possess these qualities, so she is not going to pass on her "alpha" genetics. Which is for the best, as she would not make for a capable parent, nor partner. If she had the ability to sustain a lasting relationship, she would have done so by now. Instead, she uses her traveling lifestyle as a perfect-storm excuse for why she does not have one. She would rather sleep in an RV with a bunch of dogs for the rest of her life than come home to a partner she can rely on everyday? And she has the audacity to lecture people about how to attract people and maintain relationships when she is not capable of keeping a guy around herself.

Conceiving and birthing a child is something every fertile woman can do. Not every woman is capable of successfully raising a child of their own with a committed partner. That is an accomplishment, you idiot; an accomplishment that Eva has not, nor ever will, realize. That accomplishment requires the kinds of interpersonal relationship skills that Eva does not possess, but hypocritically criticizes men for not having.

Where is her partner, "Michelle?" Where is he? Why are you, a random, internet sock puppet supporter, coming to her defense and not her provider/protecter boyfriend? Where is her boyfriend to threaten to beat my ass, if me calling her out on her bullshit is so egregious?

He does not exist, because she is not capable of maintaining a relationship. She has too many weird, rigid social rules and beliefs for any normal, emotionally stable man to tolerate. She has obvious sexual trauma from her past that has not been professionally addressed, to the point that she wrote a post about how a fucking goofy Christmas song from the 40's promotes sexual assault. What emotionally healthy person does that? She brings her past issues into every relationship and self sabotages.

She writes "advice" articles with snarky, condescending language that reads like she is putting men through obedience school to meet her expectations, as if she has no personality flaws of her own that contributed to her failed relationships. It takes two to dance.

She also hypocritically scolds men for sexualizing women, while she brags simultaneously about "having a body like a super model." She emphasizes her physical appearance for the sake of her self-confidence, because she knows that her weird personality will not endure her to the kind of man she wants. The men she wants may want to fuck her, but they will not put up with her long-term when they have better options available to them; hence her traveling lifestyle alibi.

Eva Glasrud link
10/31/2023 10:51:01 pm

Michelle,

This dude has been obsessed with me for literal years. It's weird that despite the countless hours he's spend reading everything I've ever written and staring at every photo and video I've ever shared, he still knows so little about me... but then again, he is miserable and single, and that is certainly for a reason (creepy, obsessive tendencies + obvious lack of intelligence + uncontrollable anger... bad combo). Literally everything he knows about women came from incel forums, so of COURSE he is obsessed with the idea that all women desperately want children. Glad to hear it gave us both a chuckle :)

Dan,

Try to keep your comments to a few sentences, because they read like a bad bot generating content based on the most boring, pathetic shit ever posted on reddit, and people lose interest pretty quickly.

I'm sorry for you that you are so obsessed with me. I hope eventually you find meaning and fulfillment in some other part of your life, because women like me don't end up with men like you. The best you can hope for is that we occasionally respond to your endless, boring comments on our blogs.

Definitely check out Internet Girl, though. It's basically about you. I mean, not that I've ever given a single thought about you except for the constant notifications I get from my blog when you comment. But it's about a dude who spends all his time obsessing over some girl on the internet who will never give him the time of day.

https://open.spotify.com/track/1LAi7WamsxkXMXBb7HFz8I

"Did you know that I didn't know that I don't know a thing about you?"

Sorry, stalker.

Eva Glasrud link
10/31/2023 10:55:24 pm

Michelle,

Also, OMG LOL at Dan's "where is her protector" comment!!! I couldn't read more than the first two sentences because it literally reads like a shitty bot, but scrolling past his comment, I noticed his sentence about how my boyfriend should spend his time replying to boring trolls on my blog!!! I used to assume he was an adult man. Now I'm wondering if he's a teenager! But he certainly has no life offline if he thinks that is how couples spend their time...

Dan may be quite worthless when it comes to personal qualities... but he's always good for a chuckle when he comments on The Happy Talent!!

Dan
9/16/2023 11:37:50 am

" >says it’s a woman’s job to cook, clean, and care for the children, there’s a very good chance that most women (and probably a huge portion of men) would consider that misogyny."

"Yes, because people are free to choose what job they want in life and relationships. Some women are happy to cook and clean, and that's great! Some women have no interest. That's also great!"

And yet you have stated that it is a man's job to be a provider, which completely negates the validity of the above statement. You do not get to dictate what a man's role is in life and relationships and turn around and complain that men are guilty of doing the same to women.

Is it any wonder why men don't tolerate your hypocrisy and you have failed to find a long-term partner?

Reply
Eva Glasrud link
9/21/2023 10:01:04 am

LOL -- where'd I say that?

Men love me. Probably at least 8 try to plan a life with me every year. I'm busy traveling, though :)

Reply
Dan
10/15/2023 05:06:38 pm

I'm not going to sift through your blog and find the comment where you told a guy that a man's purpose is to provide. It's your blog, and your outlook on relationships, so you can own what you wrote.

Men love you? Which ones? The ones who you cringingly ask to pick you up in their arms for a photo op on your IG? The guys you play music with at dive bars who are old enough to be your father (your father being a touchy subject for you)? Or sock puppet bloggers like changingthenarrative you have to make up to defend you from a third-party perspective?

You would rather travel than choose a partner and start a family? I thought alphas were supposed to attract a mate and pass on their genetics. You're using your lifestyle as an alibi for not being able to sustain a relationship because your self-important personality and flaws that you will not acknowledge won't allow you to, so you use it as an excuse. You're the beta of the bunch.

You're in your late thirties, and your body may not be able to carry a child to terms. I fully support your lifestyle, though. Whatever keeps a narc like you from reproducing is the best outcome.

Eva Glasrud link
10/15/2023 06:44:43 pm

LOLOLOL. "Dan." You have literally memorized every picture I've posted on Instagram and every joke I've made on The Happy Talent. You even know the names of everyone who comments semi-regularly on my blog. Yet you're unable to link to the place where I supposedly said that.

Sounds like you know you're lying. That is SO adorable.

Why are you so obsessed with me and my travels? Why are you so jealous of the men who love me? Is it because you are desperate and alone and have nothing whatsoever going on in your life, so you have to obsess over mine to find any purpose or meaning?

Eat your heart out, sweetie :)

Michelle
10/25/2023 02:21:49 pm

Dan seems obsessed with you, Eva! He's apparently read so many blog posts of yours that he can't remember the specific one where you made the comment that he based his entire low-effort, low-context, low-everything argument on. He also has apparently looked through ALL your photos and remembers them, in detail - look how clearly and quickly he was able to recite the content of the photos he felt helped support his questionable "point"!

Dan, whatever basement you're dwelling in - your mom's, your grandma's, your cousin's,a random stranger you met in the 7-11 who took pity on you, whatever - I do hope you realize that by posting all those unhinged screeds to Eva, you put your whole posterior on display to the world. I realize it's tough to develop self-awareness while sitting on a computer all day, inhaling Cheez-its and Mountain Dew, and simultaneously searching for naughty pictures on the internet AND "Size XXXXL cargo shorts." But some self-awareness is needed here. It would probably help you a lot, to think about: "How did I get here? Is living in a basement, jobless and friendless, having terrible personal hygiene, and weighing 400 lbs what my young self would have wanted for me? Is there a way I could simultaneously learn life, job, interpersonal and social skills and pull myself out of this situation?" Just try thinking about those things for five minutes. See how it feels.

Angus
10/5/2023 09:00:50 am

Articles like this only makes me thankful to God I'm not interested in women, and makes me more agree about MGTOW and redpill.

Reply
Eva Glasrud link
10/11/2023 01:31:17 pm

LOLOLOL. Yes, it is SO SO HORRIBLE to say that the person who initiates should either pay for the date or tell his date how much it will cost.

BASIC HUMAN DECENCY and GROWN-UP COMMUNICATION SKILLS are SOOOOOOOOOO hateful and mean!!!!

Thanks for cracking me up. It's too bad you don't like women. We love guys who can make us laugh!! :)

Reply
Michelle
10/25/2023 02:12:57 pm

By all means, Angus, please continue Going Your Own Way. Please. As far away from single women as possible, please.

Reply
Dan
10/27/2023 08:53:30 pm

I devote my energy working two demanding, time-consuming jobs and still find the time and energy to maintain a fitness regimen five days a week, despite a severe autoimmune disorder. I do this while polishing job skills that require continuing education to maintain my certification in my field.

I am not obese, nor jobless. I work hard to help my brother afford speech therapy and private school for my autistic nephew, who I love very much. So you can go fuck yourself.

And, truth be told, my nephew has more authenticity and self-awareness than Eva.

There is something very slimy and inwardly toxic about her that reveals itself to people over time. Which is why she will never have a family of her own, and she will spend her days keeping herself occupied in an RV working as a glorified guidance counselor.

Eva Glasrud link
10/31/2023 10:43:12 pm

Michelle -- AMEN :)

Dan -- Holy HUNDREDS OF COMMENTS FROM YOU. Are you like in love with me or something? You've been following me closely and with rapt attention for literal years, so I was surprised to hear you supposedly have "time-consuming jobs" on top of all the time you spend thinking about me.

Thanks for yet another chuckle, though. I always laugh at broken, lonely men who think a woman's life is incomplete without human shit to clean and snotty noses to wipe.

I really hope you find something to occupy your time other than me eventually, because you and me are never going to happen.

But since you ARE currently still obsessed, and since a hate stream still counts as a stream, don't miss my latest singles, Internet Girl (https://open.spotify.com/track/1LAi7WamsxkXMXBb7HFz8I ) and Woman Her Age (https://open.spotify.com/track/7yF3T01SNhHSGkNTO1hTqN ) -- and hit that subscribe button, because I've got more new stuff coming out soon!!! Happy stalking!!

Brian
12/17/2023 02:21:29 am

This is a great article on how to avoid being a mysoginist. Furthermore it provides great advice to men on how to guarantee that you will never get a second date, and in most instances, make sure the first one is cancelled.

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Kevin Clancy
7/5/2024 09:22:23 pm

> Instead of whining and feeling wounded and victimized, maybe be appreciative of the fact that SHE has agreed to give YOU something of hers that is WAY more valuable than money: her time and attention.

> Again, if you're going to whine about having to show appreciation and care and affection toward the woman who just agreed to give you the most precious thing she has -- her time -- you're unlikely to get a second date.

I don't understand the asymmetry here. Isn't men's time valuable too? Don't women *want* to go on dates? Why are you making it sound like dating a burden for them and that we must compensate them for their time.

Yes, dating takes time. But in return you get a dating opportunity, which for most people more than compensates for the lost time.

Reply
Dan
7/23/2024 11:29:48 am

Kevin, she doesn't quite see things that way. You have to consider what kind of woman you are asking that question to. This is a woman who has called herself an "Amazonian Goddess," with the "body of a supermodel." This woman is a narcissist, and she thinks that her very presence in a guy's life warrants whatever she wants from him, which is why she spends more time traveling than dating.

She is an energy vampire.

Reply
Devon
1/2/2025 12:56:36 pm

I enjoyed reading the article, great points were made.

I also really enjoyed "Dan's" months-long meltdown over a woman expressing an opinion different than his own. No doubt, Dan is a member of the male loneliness epidemic and stalking content creators garners the only attention he receives. Weird!

Reply
Dan
1/11/2025 12:22:01 am

Devon,

Or, Eva, should I say, because only you would use quotes around my actual name. Glad you enjoyed the "meltdown." You should read your own incessant obsession with trans people on Quora that's been eating at you for years. What happened, did a trans person take your place on a major sports team?

Reply
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Reply



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    Eva is a content specialist with a passion for play, travel... and a little bit of girl power.  Read more >


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