To all the hundreds of men who say "women will never be attracted to me" - Here's what you're doing wrong.

10/16/2022

As anyone who follows my blog or Facebook knows, the two posts that consistently get the most views per month are

What Men Don't Understand When They Complain, "It's Only Creepy If The Guy Isn't Hot

and

"Creepy" Isn't About Attractiveness. It's About Reciprocity.

Due to these posts, I get a handful of private notes and comments thanking me for my encouragement and advice (some formerly creepy guys even have girlfriends now!)... and dozens of butthurt, defensive incels who are mad that I'd give them some basic advice about how to not come across as creepy.

After receiving maybe the 100th comment from a man who claims he's determined that no woman will ever find him attractive, so he's just going to give up, I decided to make a post out of the reply I have to keep typing.

Here's my reply:

Doug, there are 4 billion women on this planet. Surely there are at least a handful who would love you.

The developmental feedback I can give you is limited, because I don't actually know you. But here is what I know:

Women love confidence. It's not about cockiness and arrogance and dickheadedness (see also: Girls Don't Like Guys BECAUSE They're Jerks. They Like Them DESPITE Being Jerks).

It's about autonomy and agency. From an evolutionary perspective, confidence mens that you know you can shape and influence the world around you, whether to protect a pregnant partner or keep her fed and nourished while she is breastfeeding her baby or figure out a way to keep your family alive during a famine.

Speaking of cavemen, if you haven't read George Saunders' Pastoralia, you should. It's amusing -- but it's not as good as Sea Oak, but that's okay, because it's included in the same collection.

When you say, "I’ve concluded that I’m simply not able to be sexually attractive to any woman," etc., you're indicating helplessness. This is the opposite of confidence, and the least attractive thing a man can be to a woman.

If you don't think you can approach a woman without creeping her out, then FIX IT.

Follow the advice in the very article you are commenting on!

Can you honestly not start a conversation with a woman without making an unsolicited comment about her body or violating her personal space?

Can you honestly not just talk to her about the latest space launch, Bulls game, or whatever interests you, without leering creepily at her?

Can you honestly not show interest in what another person is saying and ask good follow-up questions without, like, groping her?

I don't believe that you ARE helpless. I believe that you FEEL helpless, and that is what is so repulsive to women. We're kind of experts at detecting helplessness, because it would be really bad to get knocked up by a helpless male.

So.

Do you have the willingness to change this?

If not... maybe keep hanging out with women just as friends, because you're right -- no one will ever be attracted to you.

But if you do, then start working on it.

Don't double down and get defensive like an ornery little boy. Be willing to learn. Be willing to improve. Be an actual adult with actual agency, instead of a child with a temper.

Obviously the first thing you need to do is learn to be more socially aware and comfortable to be around, so you should order and read every page of Olivia Fox Cabane's The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Connection.

Next, you need to learn find an evidence-based therapist who uses cognitive behavioral therapy, and who is willing to call you out on your shit.

Don't just randomly pick a therapist, because there are a lot of bad ones out there. Before or at your first meeting, tell the therapist that you are not interested in regurgitating childhood trauma or whatever Freudian bullshit, but that you want to actively come up with strategies to recognize and change dysfunctional social behaviors.

Remember: if you can't get a date and women are calling you creepy, you are obviously doing things wrong, and it would be helpful to have someone help you figure out what.

One thing to keep in mind: if you're struggling with depression and the therapist recommends SSRIs, you need to have a serious discussion about whether this is the best option for you. SSRIs can kill your sex drive and cause sexual dysfunction, which is obviously going to mess up your motivation and willingness to date.

Another book you will find very useful is Byron Katie's Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life.

Katie lays out several strategies for cognitively reframing negative thoughts and finding the person you could be without these toxic and untrue beliefs.

If you're already mad. If you're already disagreeing with me. If you already know that none of this advice will help you...

That is why you are repulsive to women.

You are helpless. You are unwilling to grow and improve.

And there is no reason any woman should expect this part of you to magically change just because she started dating you.

You need to take accountability for your own mistakes and growth.

Or nothing will ever change for you and you will always be alone.

15 Comments

john

10/20/2022 07:38:24 am

Can I understand that all women ain't here for my entertainment or obligated to or subject to my own personal wants and needs? Yes! 💯! Can u women try and understand that some men actually can and do appreciate u for the very intelligent, cunning and resourceful creatures that u are and would never even register within them that u were anything less? Not for a second. Maybe some of us ou here actually have the capacity to find you where ur at and respect the whole of u exactly as u are without influence, expectations or judgements?... Maybe that shit that used to anger, intimidate and repulse him about u has actually become most of the reason hes found himself becoming more and more attracted to women just like u and truly appreciates how calculated and intelligent u are when you're mapping out your whole environments and lives down to the finest manipulative detail in order to have an environment that you're comfortable in that also allows u to flourish and be the power brokers in those environments. Yeah we can come to those conclusions and understandings within ourselves as men whithout it being something that makes him weak or desperate because he's accepted things how they are. Not at all. I haven't accepted none of it. Fought it the whole way. Until i opens my eyes and my understanding to the possibility that negative feelings do to my own pride and ego might be keeping me from learning something or being able to really appreciate what's been laid out before me for what it is... A carefully crafted and well laid out tapestry of your resourcefulness, intelligence, ingenuity and passion that feels like art but can teach u more then a lifetime of college if we allow ourselves enough humility and appreciation to learn from what you've placed in front of us. Ya know as bull headed domineering men... I'm a lot of things but I'm not desperate and I certainly ain't to available... None of that. Very confident in self actually and I really do mold my environment in such a way so as to highlight a life that takes cues from that environment in order to mimic the things in that environment that I've deemed hold a higher social engineering value with people who are easily manipulated by what they hav been conditioned to look for even if it doesn't reflect the truth or is something that could be damaging to my reputation and how people view me. To me there is far more value in letting someone be angry at u for being something they are programed to hate and pass judgements on even while glossing over their own participation and culpability in fostering and promoting said behavior or character traits/Flaws... It's easier to manipulate, navigate and control your environment and the people in that environment if u help them believe in their own righteousness and moral superiority. And u give them easy yet intangible targets for their indignation and anger... The only thing u need for this formula to work after u set the stage is a solid understanding of the truth as it really is (from your side now) and a healthy understanding of your own self worth and people's opinions don't prove anything about u other than that u now have a real life example of your ability to help people feel and react to things in a way that more often then not will benefit u and do so at their expence... I learned that from a group of very intelligent women determined to live a life they choose where they are not just participating but in power positions. I love y'all for real. And I appreciate u. Y'all ain't willing to appreciate that truth though. Letting that power get to your heads and losing the vision maybe..? In closing I just want to point out one thing... This or anything I send isn't harassment.... Don't flatter yourselves.... It's communicating with u in your chosen format because thats all u get when u fail to accept and acknowledge anyone via tangible platforms yourselves... That means we can say what we want true or not and the other party has to see it but it also never happened anywhere but in your head... If u
acknowledge anything in person that u take personal then you've failed... I don't even want u to fail. But u will have to accept the truth sooner or later... That I see u and u see me and maybe I'm not as stupid or movable as I once was to all this... I will enjoy everything u invest into this project. Everything. And when I'm back at a full power base in life I'm gonna love the switches that gonna take over y'all's "opinions" and who in the inner circle... 😁 I for real ducks with y'all... U gave me some real game even if it took me awhile to soak it up...

Doug

6/10/2023 07:31:19 am

Hi Eva - it’s Doug. I am not indicating “helplessness” as you surmise. I am indicating observed reality. And btw, as I said in the quoted post, I have lots of women friends - so obviously I do not do the offensive things you ask about.

Vestigal

10/24/2023 07:15:14 am

I love how she will never respond to you. It's amazing how women can't see the distinct advantage that they have over men, and how they take the fact that they can have sex whenever they want for granted.

It's not a societal thing, it's not even a human thing. Females of all species are the choosers; they get to decide who breeds and who doesn't. If you, as a man, have been judged as unworthy, you will not breed.

The answer to this problem was solved before recorded history: Prostitution. Any woman who chooses their partner based on what he can provide her is just as much a prostitute as as a streetwalker. The only difference is how much they delude themselves.

Ugly men (physically or mentally) need to move to Europe or Nevada to be happy, full stop.

Michelle

10/25/2023 02:33:25 pm

Believe me, Vestigal (is that another name for your...little man? Just curious). Most women are super-happy prostitution exists. In fact, a lot of women are really hoping that affordable sex robots come on the market sooner rather than later, and so the bridge-dwelling malcontents and general rejects - you know, like the guys who show up in these comment sections - can just retreat into their basements or bedroom in their mom's house with the sex robot, and live happily ever after. It really won't be that big of a deal to womankind. The more undesirables we can get out of the dating pool, the happier everyone will be.

Eva Glasrud link

10/31/2023 10:36:12 pm

Doug, your comments came across as pretty defeated and helpless. You should take my advice and try to address these attitudes, as it will help with the dating stuff.

"Vestigal," sorry you've been unable to attract any mates. Loneliness sucks. I hope your prostitutes work out for you or at least take the edge off of your loneliness.

Michelle -- could not agree more. :)

David Nichols

11/7/2023 06:14:01 am

Yall are very disingenuous. 1) most women do not support prostitution, and feminists in particular, hate the idea of sex robots. 2) You can interpret it as defeat or accepting reality. You take the attention you receive for granted and you're entitlement, lack of self awareness or empathy and narcissistic level of self assuredness is evident in your witless snark. Women like violent narcissists. If a man isn't either exceptionally physical attractive or some kind of manipulative douchebag who is just as unempathetic, impulsive and entitled as you, then Women probably won't get along with him.

changingthenarrative

6/20/2023 12:02:54 am

This is excellent advice.

I firmly believe a lot of these guys and their problems are due to the fact that what passes for a man in society these days is such a low bar compared to previous eras when it comes to the things that actually deep down make a man attractive to a woman.

Confidence, how you handle yourself, being responsible, being able to protect her, chivalry etc. Society right now tries to make men "enlightened" at the expense of what actually makes us men because the most influential voices right now are women who are in all honesty dishonest about what attracts them in a guy or what they desire and men who have no backbone to the point they'll say all the right things just to get laid or get ahead in life. I've seen you be on the wrong end of that with your comments on gender ideology so I know you know the phenomena I refer to.

Too many of these guys don't have the kind of upbringing or life that instills in one a backbone and the old school values necessary to have the confidence to be who you are and know that a lot of what society is telling you as a man is bullshit they only say because it sounds good.

There is ALWAYS something you can improve. Period. The idea that a guy can't possibly attract a woman at all is just so ridiculous. Eva is 100% right that you're making yourself helpless and having a defeatist attitude in order to make excuses rather than putting in the work to grow.

Kris

8/19/2023 10:12:17 pm

I'm so tired.

I'm 30 years old. When I was 18, I was 330 pounds, autistic, socially inept. I spat when I talked (still do sometimes lol), got too excited about my special interests. I talked over people, and I was rude.

I've lost 100 pounds. I made so many friends - many of whom are women. I got my degree, worked for a few years. I got new hobbies, I travelled to other countries. I moved cities and I rekindled old friendships and I volunteered. I tried new things and I learned how to laugh at myself.

I still have no easier time getting a woman to look at me. If I'm online anonymous on reddit I can have no end of experiences. The moment I am expected to generate that je ne sais quoi in person, it generally fails.

I'm just so tired of the condescension, Eva. I'm tired of being told shit like "are you incapable of talking to a woman without groping her?" I'm tired of being told shit like "take a shower and go to the gym" - basic shit someone should be doing anyway.

What I don't understand is why women have such a hard time understanding - it is AVERAGE guys struggling. I'm sure the guys who never bathe and go on insane sexist rants on their first dates are going to have trouble - this does not apply to many, many men like myself that are having a bad time with it.

Sure we can be Kenough and enjoy our lives as single men - but we're not necessarily happy single. We want to be married and drive our adorable little children to soccer practice and we want to frame their drawings on the wall, too. At least I do.

What I have found from life is that being dateable is kind of a non sum. There are unemployed sexist assholes that are serial daters and cheat on everyone they ever date, and never lack for a partner, and there are really awesome guys that are single for most of their lives. Idk what I am, I prefer not to judge myself. My self standard is to be modest, humble, diligent, hard working, and respectful, and to find some way to reconcile that with my weird character and my love of complimenting everything about my friends and loved ones.

This got a bit ranty, but I felt it needs to be stated: men are just not getting good advice. From women, we get advice like this. Advice that is accurate, but lacks a tangible methodology that we require to go about getting dating accomplished for ourselves. From other men, we get a method that is utterly lacking in any kind of accurate perspective. In the middle are socially clued out guys like myself that are trying to get better, feeling like I'm on a self improvement hamster wheel going nowhere, getting older, and starting to feel jaded in between the new gray hairs.

Please stop telling me how to floss my teeth.

10/25/2023 03:01:59 pm

Kris:

So, sorry no one has explained this to you but: apparently, you have negative rizz. Get a teenager to explain it to you, if necessary.

I truly believe that anyone - even people who are exceptionally physically unattractive (which maybe you are - be honest with yourself) can change their level of rizz and become more appealing to the people they are trying to attract. Having a "weird character" and coming across as a try-hard ("complimenting everything about friends and loved ones" is try-hard, and is likely coming across as inauthentic/pathetic) is not going to help.

I'm going to armchair-diagnose your problem - you either need to stop looking for an average-Joe woman (most likely with above-average looks - tell me I'm wrong) and lean into your weirdness, and try to find someone who's the same kind of weird as you. Or, alternatively, stop being weird, The latter is probably a lot easier than the former, TBH.

That's the "tangible methodology" you're looking for. You're either trying to hide your real personality to the point that you're coming across like Jeffrey Dahmer, trying to be a normal person around other normal people. AKA, you're trying so hard to mask your weirdness that you're coming across as creepy. Or, you're looking for someone who is, looks-wise and rizz-wise, way out of your league.

(P.s. - whining about "I can't help it, I like what I like and I only like women who look like supermodels or TV actresses or anime characters" is a cop-out. Grow up. That's usually the siren song of people who are addicted to the naughty pictures they look at online and don't want to change or have to deal with their addiction. Therapy is the best solution for this, not more whining.)

There are plenty of women out there, believe me. But if you have negative rizz, the really attractive ones are not going to go for you - sorry. That's just how this goes. You have some kind of fundamental issue with your looks or your personality that is not going to allow you to get with an extremely attractive woman who is used to being with/around men who have high levels of rizz. I know this goes against what we usually tell people - "don't worry, there's someone out there for everyone! The Real One can look past your flaws and see the real you!" That doesn't actually happen, at least not when we're talking about very attractive women who have tons of options. You are not a reasonable option for a woman who has tons of options, and the sooner you accept that, the happier you will be.

So: you need to adjust your standards and you need to be more realistic about your ability to pull women. You also should lean into whatever weird or quirky thing you're into - whether it's DnD, 3-D printing comic book characters in your garage, Warhammer, playing ridiculously complicated board games - whatever. Whatever weird thing you enjoy doing, there is a woman out there who enjoys that too. She does not, in all likelihood, look like a supermodel or an anime character. But she might be kind, loving, supportive, also want a family, etc. and you two could make a good life together.

Also, someone needs to tell you: everything you wrote is Nice Guy Syndrome in action. Every time I hear some man complaining about how "no one wants to date me even though I've worked on myself, and it's terrible because I'm Such a Nice Guy" - a little questioning reveals the person only wants to date extremely attractive women with a certain set of lifestyle credentials and attitude (which is usually: infinitely supportive, deferential and easygoing to the point of being a doormat). If you do not look like the guys on dating reality shows, and have their level of charisma/rizz? You are not going to pull the kind of women who look like women on dating reality shows. Period. I don't care what you've read on Red Pill websites or from Andrew Tate. Tate has rizz, despite being a disgusting human being. So readjust your expectations and get back out there.

One big tip: if you make everything all about you, that's a turnoff. One of the biggest turn-ons is when someone is genuinely interested in another person - not just for show, or to get something out of it. Are you talking about yourself all the time? Do you only ask questions of other people because you feel like you have to? Try asking questions and really listening to what they have to say. Not just waiting for your turn to talk. There absolutely are people out there who come across as this weird combination of obsequious/deferential but also extremely self-involved - I've seen it, in both men and women. It's obvious and it's an extreme turnoff. Is the vibe you think you're giving off the vibe you're actually giving off? Ask a friend you can trust; they'll tell you the truth.

(And yes, I would give this same advice to a woman who was complaining about an inability to find a partner. And I have.)

Dan

10/28/2023 12:51:24 pm

Would you tell Eva to get real about her level of physical attractiveness, also? She is in her late thirties and thinks that she is this gorgeous, irresistible woman that every guy wants to fuck and be with.

She is a lanky, flat-chested, flat-assed, pasty white girl with beady eyes, a gawky face and a goofy overbite. She does not have the body of a supermodel. She has the body of an androgynous female beach volley ball player whose only marker of a female is her long hair. Eva is not gorgeous, she is average, at best.

Her arrogance and delusion about her own physical attractiveness goes hand in hand with her inability to pull the kind of guy she wants. The kind of men she wants do not want her, they have far better options than a weird, goofy, arrogant, annoying woman who thinks she is 10, but is at best a 5. She looks like Jack from The Nightmare Before Christmas.

She will never pull this kind of guy, which is why she is alone. Also, if personality counts for anything, she pushes the kind of men she wants away with her own insufferable, selfish personality. Those men have options, and they have chosen better than her.

Perhaps Eva should adjust her standards and be realistic about the kind of men she can attract and not lecture people about what is and is not attractive.

10/31/2023 11:02:10 pm

Michelle,

That is a great diagnosis and advice. I hope he takes it. It could make all the difference.

Dan,

We both know I am objectively gorgeous. If you seriously think you can hurt a beautiful woman's feelings by calling her ugly, it is only because you have no experience whatsoever with being attractive or having self-esteem.

What a pity for you.

And since you're so obsessed with my love life, I have had the most loving, incredible relationships of, like, anyone. Not a day goes by when I don't feel incredibly lucky for the friendships and romantic relationships I have in my life.

Go give Internet Girl another listen. As I've said before, it's not about YOU, since I don't give a shit about you, but it's basically about you, as you're one of MANY men who are obsessed with me online, but who don't actually know anything about me, and about whom I will never think outside of the notifications I get when you comment endlessly on my content.

https://open.spotify.com/track/1LAi7WamsxkXMXBb7HFz8I

slast

10/19/2023 05:24:17 am

The problem with helplessness and defeatism is that it can never be defeated. Ropemaxxing is the way to go.

Greg

11/19/2023 06:47:23 pm

I am very fit, make good money, drive a new car, and have been told I am attractive, but never believe it. Whenever I meet a woman, I just automatically assume she would never be interested in me sexually and leave it at that. I suffered from low self esteem issues all my life, and it would be foolish to believe that will never be an issue in the future. But I am comfortable with who and what I am. I will never have to deal with another bad breakup or divorce, and will never have harassment charges thrown at me. I have learned there is more to life than looking for someone.

11/19/2023 07:24:44 pm

And I don't think it is because I am doing something wrong that needs "fixing", sometimes it is OK to be disconnected.

12/6/2023 09:35:20 am

From the perspective of a male struggler, in your essay here there seems to be a pretty serious conflation of “guy who struggles to get a date” with “guy who is creepy.” Those two are not the same thing (with one big exception that you elucidated the referenced earlier blog entry, which I will discuss after my main point).

I can objectively answer “Yes” to all of your questions…I can start a conversation without making comments about her body or violating her personal space, I can talk about the Treaty of Wesphalia or the latest board game I played without leering at her, I can be an active and responsive listener in what she has to say without groping her.

None of those basic social skills make me *attractive* to her, however, which college-aged “Nice Guy”(TM) me despondently discovered as girls for whom I fell straight through friendhood and into unrequited crushing categorically failed to feel the same. The bitter lesson: as friendship deepens, stamp down on and purge my feelings of attraction, as they are *not* returned…no creepiness included on my part.

(Full disclosure…there were three instances in my life where I *did* surpass the “Nice Guy” phase and toe into “Creepy Guy”-dom…they weren’t intentionally creepy on my part at the time, and I only recognized them as such with introspection and therapy years after the fact, and I am willing to describe them and submit to the Judgement of the Internet if anyone cares to hear the cringey details, but I feel I should at least mention the times I was creepy as I say “I can talk to women without being creepy.”)

That brings me to the point you omitted in your brief recap of that article: “If you’re not SURE the answer is yes, don’t ask her out.” The unspoken truths there:
1- Asking a woman out when she doesn’t want to be asked out is inherently creepy
2- Women have a right to go about their lives on a daily basis without dealing with unwanted romantic advances, even if they’re respectful and vanishing in the face of rejection
Which are reinforced by this from you:
“If you don't know she would say yes, you…need to practice developing your social skills (…). Because either you don't have the social savvy to stay out of trouble, or you're asking because of wishful thinking. And she shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable and objectified by some CREEPY DUDE [emphasis mine] she doesn't even like just because you were too lazy or emotional to examine and correctly interpret the interactions.”

By that metric, I (and most other guys-who-struggle) have creeped out the DOZENS of women we have respectfully-but-futilely asked out over the decades. I am nearly 40. From my middle school days of being told by girls that I was weird and stinky (chronic conditions endemic to middle school boys), to my nerdy HS and college days of being completely invisible to women, to my maturing adult days of wondering how everyone else in the world found it all so easy, to my most recent rejection in which I was told, honest-to-God, that I was “just too nice,” I have never been found attractive enough to be told “Yes” when I asked someone out.

That alone makes me creepy in your words.

That, combined with my lived experience of being chronically rejected, means that I just need to STOP with all the shooting of shots. If this portion of the human experience hasn’t happened for me in my 25+ years of romantic eligibility, chances are slim it’s going to happen for me at all.

Sometimes, despite its deep and earnest desire to be covered, the pot just isn’t made to be fit by any lid.

To all the hundreds of men who say "women will never be attracted to me" - Here's what you're doing wrong.

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